Lonelygirl15 Forum Index Lonelygirl15
Forum to post messages about Bree and Danielbeast
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

HoO Website Quote
Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Lonelygirl15 Forum Index -> Clues and Puzzles
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
yepooda
Casual Observer


Joined: 30 May 2007
Posts: 60
Location: North Carolina

PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 2:40 pm    Post subject: HoO Website Quote Reply with quote

I've been looking at the quote on the HoO website and noticed something...

Quote:
"We place no reliance on virgin or pidgeon. Our method is science, our aim is religion."
-Aleister Crowley


pidgeon is spelled differently from how you would expect to spell it if it was the bird (pigeon). so I looked it up, and here's what I found...

Pid·geon –noun
Walter, 1898–1984, U.S. actor, born in Canada.

That just doesn't make any sense at all to me, and I really think that it is some kind of clue. I'm just not much of a puzzle solver...

Anyone have any ideas??
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
kallekelly
Suspiciously Absent


Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 11

PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 3:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I ran a search on that quote, and found that 'pidgeon' is how Crowley orginally spelled it. Here are two sites that might have useful information (I didn't read very much of what was in them)- the other sites seemed pretty useless.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/U172698

http://www.benpadiah.com/otherstuff/Spare/ZOS.html

This page has this quote on it - "Remember that the slogan of the OTO, printed on every Equinox, states: 'We place no reliance on virgin or pidgeon. Our method is science, our aim is religion.' " (the OTO is the masonic group that Crowley was in charge of for a long time)
_________________
www.youtube.com/kallekelly
www.myspace.com/kallekelly
Contributor to www.LG15today.blogspot.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
deagol
Thor's Hammer


Joined: 28 Oct 2006
Posts: 1068
Location: No, not here.

PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 7:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you google the "pidgeon" version of the quote you get 9 results:
- HoO main site
- HoO myspace
- a HoO-related YT video
- 2 links to this forum
- a possibly independent link titled "The Book of THOTH" which doesn't have the quote anywhere (don't know why).

What's left is
- a user-submitted quotes listing
- a random myspace blog
- an apparently more serious blogger, http://www.jesuslist.com/blog/page/26/

When you google the "pigeon" version you get 120 results, and I didn't see a single one related to HoO. Sure, there's a few random people quoting it, but still...

For whatever reason Google didn't find the 2 links found by the previous poster, so this can't be a definitive conclusion. But in relative terms, it's clear that there are much more references to the grammatically correct quote. I guess the only way to prove it either way would be if someone had a real, physical issue of that 1st number of the 1st volume of his magazine Equinox.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
Elizabeth
Suspiciously Absent


Joined: 29 Apr 2007
Posts: 17
Location: Western New York

PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 8:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

if you look at the cache on google at the Book of THOTH it spreads random quotes by Crowley and is very into his teachings. It's just a random quote they use.
_________________
So Jonas tell all. Does Bree really kiss like a fish? (fooseball episode)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address Yahoo Messenger
GenocideInMyMind
Casual Observer


Joined: 29 May 2007
Posts: 106
Location: A commune somewhere in Northern California...

PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 10:04 pm    Post subject: Sing the eternal song.... Reply with quote

Well, if this is their claim, if they follow this quote, than Bree doesn't have to be a virgin to do the ceremony. It implies that they didn't want a virgin, and therefore explains that the purity bond is just a vow of trustworthiness.
_________________
Anti 'Rockefellar' Society

http://www.youtube.com/GenocideInMyMind

http://myspace.com/genocideinmymind

http://GenocideInMyMind.bebo.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address MSN Messenger
K23239
Suspiciously Absent


Joined: 16 Feb 2007
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 8:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0682074/

All I could find. Look at the years though, compared to Aleister Crowley's life.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Elizabeth
Suspiciously Absent


Joined: 29 Apr 2007
Posts: 17
Location: Western New York

PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

They are probobly talking about the immaculate birth of jesus and mary the virgin mother.
_________________
So Jonas tell all. Does Bree really kiss like a fish? (fooseball episode)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address Yahoo Messenger
Elizabeth
Suspiciously Absent


Joined: 29 Apr 2007
Posts: 17
Location: Western New York

PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 6:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

K23239 wrote:
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0682074/

All I could find. Look at the years though, compared to Aleister Crowley's life.


I don't get it. Explain a bit more. I see that Crowley was cambridge and Pidgeon was Boston. Most of Crowley's life was lived before Pidgeon was in the movies.
_________________
So Jonas tell all. Does Bree really kiss like a fish? (fooseball episode)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address Yahoo Messenger
garnet
Lonely Fan


Joined: 25 Mar 2007
Posts: 188
Location: Jolly Olde England

PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 9:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This could be stating the obvious, but:

Based on Judeo-Christian theology, a dove can be offered as a sacrifice as a means of salvation / forgiveness of sins. Pigeon is sometimes used as a term for a small dove. Both doves and pigeons are members of the Colmbidae family. Furthermore, pigeon rhymes with religion, while dove doesn't.

Jesus (believed by many to be the product of a virgin birth) was also considered a human sacrifice whose death resulted in the salvation of his followers.

In addition, ancient polytheistic societies were known to sacrifice female virgins to the gods as a means of obtaining favor or atoning for past wrongs.

I am not by any means an expert on Crowley, but my interpretation of the quote was that he and his followers would not rely on human or animal sacrifice to obtain favor. Rather, they would use science as a sort of substitute for religious ritual. By striving for a closer understanding of the universe through science, they would be bettering the world and fulfilling their True Will, thereby eliminating the need for sacrifice and atonement.

This is just my interpretation, but that's how it struck me when I first saw it on the website. It leads me to believe that the ceremony Bree is / was to be involved in would not involve killing or blood-letting as a means of sacrifice. Rather, it would involve some sort of dangerous scientific experiment.


Additionally, pigeon is a term sometimes used for one easily duped. Crowley may have felt that he did not want "pigeons" among his followers. Mere numbers were not as important as intelligence. To take this a step further, virgins are often seen as naive and lacking experience. One could go so far as to say that Crowley preferred worldliness in his cohorts.

I really think that pidgeon is just an alternate spelling, especially because it is not capitalized.

ETA: Again, I'm not an expert, but based on the little research I've done, Crowley seems like the kind of guy who would affect archaic spellings to give his words a more weighty tone.
_________________
Rosencrantz: Another curious scientific phenomenon is the fact that the fingernails grow after death, as does the beard.
Guildenstern: What?
Rosencrantz: Beard. . . The toenails, on the other hand, never grow at all.


Last edited by garnet on Mon Jun 18, 2007 7:42 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Cleo
Casual Observer


Joined: 14 Jan 2007
Posts: 95

PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 9:33 pm    Post subject: Dove Reply with quote

Crowley's quote is a dig at Catholicism. The "virgin" is Mary and the "pidgeon" is the dove. The dove is a symbol for the Holy Spirit in the Catholic faith, the third part of the Holy Trinity. In calling the Holy Spirit a "pidgeon," Crowley trivializes it. Crowley's contrasting what he supposes to be blind faith in Christian superstition with what he supposes to be wise faith in Gnostic science (his teaching). I'm certain that this is the meaning of the original Crowley quotation.

As for the quotation's use on the HoO website, there may be more to it. I enjoy garnet's interpretation, contrasting pagan sacrifice with modern cult science (hardly obvious, smarty garnet). That would be a perfect new context for this quote and quite brilliant if that's where the writers are going with this!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
JustAnotherLonelyGirl.
P. Monkey's Agent


Joined: 21 Sep 2006
Posts: 2094
Location: Boston

PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 11:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought pidgeon is the British spelling of pigeon.
_________________
"Beneath this mask there is more than flesh. Beneath this mask there is an idea, Mr. Creedy, and ideas are bulletproof."
-- V For Vendetta <3
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
loobylou
Enthusiastic Fan


Joined: 01 Feb 2007
Posts: 389
Location: Bonnie Scotland

PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 2:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No - we spell pigeon the same way as you guys! Smile
_________________
Can't we all just get along?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Nieriel.Manwathiel
Owen's Helper


Joined: 06 Nov 2006
Posts: 1504
Location: Somewhere between here and there

PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 2:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wow. lookie what i found on dictionary.com


American Heritage Dictionary wrote:

pi·geon 2 (pĭj'ən) n.

An object of special concern; an affair or matter.

[Alteration of pidgin.]


(emphasis mine)
Bree IS a chosen one... and there has been talk of a ceremony (some day!!!! )


btw, yep, if this is of any use...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Pidgeon
_________________
A watching_watchers-certified POST WHORE!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address
Cleo
Casual Observer


Joined: 14 Jan 2007
Posts: 95

PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 9:04 am    Post subject: Affectation Reply with quote

garnet wrote:


ETA: Again, I'm not an expert, but based on the little research I've done, Crowley seems like the kind of guy who would affect archaic spellings to give his words a more weighty tone.


I agree with garnet here. Alternate spellings are typical of English writers like Spenser and MacPhereson who were attempting to align themselves with past traditions of magic and bardhood. Some scholars believe that even the Anglo-Saxon scribes affected earlier Old English dialects in order to gain authority, which accounts for the previous too-early-dating of Beowulf. Anyway, what I'm saying is, writers, particularly English ones such as Crowley, often add e's to words where they don't belong just to sound old, mysterious, and authoritative.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Lurker
Guest





PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 9:16 am    Post subject: Re: Affectation Reply with quote

Cleo wrote:
Anyway, what I'm saying is, writers, particularly English ones such as Crowley, often add e's to words where they don't belong just to sound old, mysterious, and authoritative.


You mean "olde, mysterious and authoritative."
Back to top
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Lonelygirl15 Forum Index -> Clues and Puzzles All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
Protected by Anti-Spam ACP