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Jeromy Casual Observer
Joined: 01 May 2007 Posts: 123
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Esteed Enthusiastic Fan
Joined: 27 Mar 2007 Posts: 432 Location: Delaware
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Posted: Thu May 03, 2007 7:59 pm Post subject: |
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Oh my god! I'm laughing so hard I'm in tears here! |
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trainer101 Moderator Manager
Joined: 20 Sep 2006 Posts: 2671 Location: Wasting away again ILLUMINATIVILLE...
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Posted: Thu May 03, 2007 8:02 pm Post subject: |
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You were right the first time. It's a genre which incorporates various mediums.
EDIT TO ADD: With an ARG, one can never fully enjoy the experience just by watching the videos. While you can understand it from the sidelines, you never experience the full effect until you "Immerse Yourself". _________________ It's STILL all connected...
Last edited by trainer101 on Thu May 03, 2007 8:10 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Jeromy Casual Observer
Joined: 01 May 2007 Posts: 123
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Posted: Thu May 03, 2007 8:08 pm Post subject: |
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ahhh. I see that you are right, and I stand corrected. Genre using various mediums. |
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trainer101 Moderator Manager
Joined: 20 Sep 2006 Posts: 2671 Location: Wasting away again ILLUMINATIVILLE...
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Posted: Thu May 03, 2007 8:12 pm Post subject: |
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Ah, you responded before I finished my fancy shmancy edit. _________________ It's STILL all connected... |
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Jeromy Casual Observer
Joined: 01 May 2007 Posts: 123
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Posted: Thu May 03, 2007 8:17 pm Post subject: |
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excellent Edit btw |
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immortal1 Enthusiastic Fan
Joined: 15 Sep 2006 Posts: 456
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Posted: Thu May 03, 2007 8:53 pm Post subject: |
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Jeromy-
Interesting response. First I want to clarify that my question and this post are not meant to be malicious, convey any ill-will nor in any way be confrontational. Snarky? Maybe, but who doesn't enjoy good snark? I'd like to explain my thought process behind my comments and questions.
Firstly, I winced when I saw your request not to discuss plot "holes." Why? Because it struck me a bit as like a quarterback giving an interview after game and saying "you can ask me about the touchdowns I threw but not the interceptions."
Why am I so hung up on the pidgeon? Since the theme is revelations I have one myself. I've taken the class at UCLA Extension for Story Analysis for Film and Television- to my knowledge it still the only class offered that teaches how to do script coverage. I've also put in a year writing development notes for a script consulting service and did 2 three month tours writing coverage for Sundance Labs. Does that make me an expert? Of course not but I do pick up on things others may not. The pidgeon is the inciting incident for the story. For those that don't know the inciting incident or catalyst is what drives the main character to action, it kicks off the plot and is a moment in time that diverts the main character from the path they were on in life. It has to be believable. You ask ten people if they play a disk that said "read me" that was in an envelope slid under a door and I'm pretty sure 9-10 people would say yes. Would they pick up a pidgeon with a note? Maybe between 2-4. Why's it important? Because it's a first impression. Instead of being open to everything that follows, now I am skeptical. Now maybe it's revealed later. Maybe there's a coup filled with pidgeons with notes and the very end of the story shows girls all over the country opening their doors to pidgeons waiting with notes revealing this is how the hitman/killer has been luring his victims. But for now your asking me to take it on faith and I just not sure viewers of lg15 have any to spare.
Why Maddison? Same problem, any good faith I may have had in the bank to give a story has been given to the main story. You don't have to say the reason but viewers need to know that a reason exists. "Trust the story, not the storyteller." Have you earned the viewers trust enough to earn this good faith in return? I don't think killing the main characters helped that cause any. I could almost see killing one because that raises the stakes much like when the Creators killed off Bree's dad. I suspect they aren't dead because then your viewers would shield themselves from becoming too attached to whatever characters you introduce next but I'm sure you've considered that.
Last question is basically does the story take a backseat to the game? I always suspected PMs create games and then fit the story to the game and if this is the case maybe some rules that apply to storytelling wouldn't apply. You seemed to suggest something to that effect but certainly from this response and others there seems that there is a need to allow for improvisation so the story does become secondary at times.
Now I infact do have 3 ongoing lg15 projects:
1) Dr. Immant, which was one of the first attempts at trying to participate in the interactive storytelling offered here.
2) The Flock, which started off as a video challenge to encourage and help viewers make their own characters that was successful enough to try and make a story out of.
3) A project in which my particpation has not been outed and that I have chosen to remain behind the scenes.
Feel free to snark away all you want. This could very well turn into a mutual admiration society around here and I think we should strive for something between haters and kiss assers. I wouldn't hold anyone who puts out a project to any standard I wouldn't hold to myself or to make a long story short:
I know you are but what am I? |
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Jeromy Casual Observer
Joined: 01 May 2007 Posts: 123
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Posted: Thu May 03, 2007 9:11 pm Post subject: |
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lol. Your last line was hilarious.
Plot holes do not equal interceptions at this point. If I was a year old serial and we not only had holes from the first chapter but 20 more chapter worths of holes, then your questioning would be more than justified. From my vantage, your illustration breaks down because I'm deliberately leaving holes to be filled. To me you seem like somebody who wants to know the end of the movie ten minutes in.
Pigeon vs letter. This is a good exploration In Game and not Out.
Why Maddison. Another good exploration InGame and not Out.
To be honest, you don't seem to be following the plot closely. For instance, why a pigeon is used has been discussed by the community and I've read a few VERY good reasons why Mr.Zipp opts for pigeons over more traditional forms of communication.
To answer your question, I picked plot first over puzzle.
When I get some time, I'll check out your work.
Jeromy |
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robtomorrow Devoted Fan
Joined: 25 Sep 2006 Posts: 849 Location: Seattle
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Posted: Thu May 03, 2007 9:53 pm Post subject: |
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Jeromy,
This is something I wrote relating the to the pigeon early on when I was being more critical, before I came to appreciate the game/story that you were telling.
robtomorrow wrote: | There is a fundamental problem with this story, the homing pigeon appearing on Madisons door step.
Homing pigeons only return home.
The way homing pigeons are used is that they are taken from location {A} (its' home) to location {B} where the message is to be sent from, then released, it then returns to location {A}(it's home) where the message is received.
Obviously Madison's door step was not the pigeons home! |
So I can understand immortals question. I would be interessed in your response to that. I did think I noticed you cover that problem when after the second pigeon drop Maddison looked outside and asked if there is a car outside. |
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immortal1 Enthusiastic Fan
Joined: 15 Sep 2006 Posts: 456
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Posted: Thu May 03, 2007 10:19 pm Post subject: |
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Jeromy wrote: | lol. Your last line was hilarious.
Plot holes do not equal interceptions at this point. If I was a year old serial and we not only had holes from the first chapter but 20 more chapter worths of holes, then your questioning would be more than justified. From my vantage, your illustration breaks down because I'm deliberately leaving holes to be filled. |
Fair enough. In my defense this is the first time I've seen you say plot holes are not only intentional but will be filled. If you've been planting seeds even better. It's quite possible I'm being too harsh, you've called this your first chapter and I look at it as a script reader reading the first ten pages of a screenplay. Being a game also in some ways the two are apples and oranges and in some ways they are not.
Jeromy wrote: | To me you seem like somebody who wants to know the end of the movie ten minutes in. |
LOL. I had to laugh. I've been following lg15 for over a year, if this was the case I'd be gone a long time ago. I'm also a big Lost fan and I had some second hand information that they hadn't had everything planned out and I even believe they did some retcon but I stuck with it.
Jeromy wrote: | Pigeon vs letter. This is a good exploration In Game and not Out.
Why Maddison. Another good exploration InGame and not Out. |
InGame, I guess I would have preferred maybe a hint or something in the first chapter as to why Maddy? Admittedly I'm fuzzy on the rules, I did read those PM Commandments on the lg15today blog but ok.
Jeromy wrote: | To be honest, you don't seem to be following the plot closely. For instance, why a pigeon is used has been discussed by the community and I've read a few VERY good reasons why Mr.Zipp opts for pigeons over more traditional forms of communication. |
I'm a casual viewer. I'm totally open to a good logical explanation for the pidgeons, I tried to clearify that in my earlier post. I reserve the right to be skeptical.
Jeromy wrote: | To answer your question, I picked plot first over puzzle. |
Good to know.
Jeromy wrote: | When I get some time, I'll check out your work.
Jeromy |
Rock on. |
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TheeBerean Lonely Fan
Joined: 16 Apr 2007 Posts: 192
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Posted: Thu May 03, 2007 10:27 pm Post subject: |
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robtomorrow wrote: | So I can understand immortals question. I would be interessed in your response to that. I did think I noticed you cover that problem when after the second pigeon drop Maddison looked outside and asked if there is a car outside. |
Seems like I remember, -somewhere- that Maddison had said that she was confused about how the pigeons worked and that they were really being dropped off (IE one at her place, one at Adam's) and then would fly "home". I just assumed that it was a way to send messages back to Zipp without revealing his location and without the order being able to track it. That's why in one of my posts, I suggested using a GPS chip (like zoologists use) to track it... I dont know why Maddy didn't go for that idea?? :-p
~tb _________________ The Flock is being Misled. |
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Jeromy Casual Observer
Joined: 01 May 2007 Posts: 123
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Posted: Thu May 03, 2007 10:41 pm Post subject: |
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robtomorrow wrote: | Jeromy,
This is something I wrote relating the to the pigeon early on when I was being more critical, before I came to appreciate the game/story that you were telling.
robtomorrow wrote: | There is a fundamental problem with this story, the homing pigeon appearing on Madisons door step.
Homing pigeons only return home.
The way homing pigeons are used is that they are taken from location {A} (its' home) to location {B} where the message is to be sent from, then released, it then returns to location {A}(it's home) where the message is received.
Obviously Madison's door step was not the pigeons home! |
So I can understand immortals question. I would be interessed in your response to that. I did think I noticed you cover that problem when after the second pigeon drop Maddison looked outside and asked if there is a car outside. |
So Rob. If this is the science behind homing pigeons then that leads you to what conclusion? I think if you start to look at "plot holes" as clues, then some blanks will be filled in.
Done. Moment of weakness over. |
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marlasinger Devoted Fan
Joined: 27 Feb 2007 Posts: 736 Location: The 8th Dimension
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Posted: Thu May 03, 2007 11:07 pm Post subject: |
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jeromy's my hero. he has balls. i like balls. that's a team america quote. i actually like boobs. _________________ my love tastes a lot like tofu.
The Bree Solution.
http://one.revver.com/watch/330795
"Also... im in ur canons... supporting all ur marlas."
-AutoPilate |
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robtomorrow Devoted Fan
Joined: 25 Sep 2006 Posts: 849 Location: Seattle
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Posted: Fri May 04, 2007 1:31 am Post subject: |
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marlasinger wrote: | i actually like boobs. |
Well then, that's two of us. |
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kellylen The Order of Denderah
Joined: 21 Nov 2006 Posts: 2823 Location: New Jersey
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Posted: Fri May 04, 2007 1:35 am Post subject: |
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robtomorrow wrote: | marlasinger wrote: | i actually like boobs. |
Well then, that's two of us. |
three _________________ -Kelly |
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