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Sheikh Gomelez Thor's Hammer
Joined: 09 Oct 2006 Posts: 1237 Location: The Garden of Forking Paths, south of Viriconium.
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Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 9:41 am Post subject: |
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Not to go all geeky here, and certainly not to trivialize anyone's personal experience, but I wanted to point out that some of the back-and-forth on this thread is a little reductive. Let's leave aside the free will versus neurochemical or probability-based outcome debate for moment and think about decision-making, which undoubtedly has to do on some level with the ability to perceive and respond to stimuli. People who suffer from some kinds of depression, e.g. psychotic depression, often suffer from anosognosia or other and even more severe cognitive/neurocognitive disabilities, and in some cases choice, whatever we mean by the term, wouldn't function in a meaningful way. To put it bluntly, in some instances the mental wiring is such that the person's perceptions deviate too significantly from reality to make anything like a self-preserving decision. Anhedonia and other neurocognitive deficits found in people suffering from certain kinds of depression can further restrict or limit a person's relationship to "objective reality" (whatever we mean by that); depending on the extent of limitation, this can also impact the person's decision-making capabilities. Dopamine problems can work all kinds of badness on a body-- and on a mind.
In other words, the more determined and less flexible the person's context, the less the capacity for "independent" decision-making or choice-- in any sense of the term we might be able to agree upon.
Of course, not all depressives suffer from the same kind or degree of depression, so I'm not saying that choice doesn't enter into things in all instances. And I'm not saying that anyone on the board has diminished capacity, in either a legal or ethical sense. Depends upon the nature and severity of the illness.
I'm only mentioning this to suggest that depression covers a wide range of illnesses, some of which imply a broader range of choice than others. (Within a given class of mental illness, there's often enough deviation within the class to make a precise diagnosis difficult, and sometimes symptoms of one class lead to confusion with another class; I've known people who suffered from a specific sort or another of depression but were misdiagnosed as bipolar, and sometimes a full-on psychotic gets misdiagnosed as a psychotic depressive, and vice versa, and so on.)
Ya'll can go back to bickering. Just wanted to throw these things out there.
EDIT: Assuming that a person tries to or succeeds in doing something bad to himself, herself, or others, I wouldn't say that the someone in question can or should use depression or anything else "as an excuse" for bad behavior. That's more of a "social good" issue, if you follow me. Whether or not someone has diminished capacity has little to do with coming up with a way of dealing with what the person did, although it might (or might not, depending on your social views) have to do with the manner in which society deals with the person. _________________ Tenser, said the Tensor.
Tenser, said the Tensor.
Tension, apprehension,
And dissension have begun. |
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asenath Casual Observer
Joined: 30 Sep 2006 Posts: 89 Location: Innsmouth
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Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 11:49 am Post subject: |
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spaciegirl wrote: | asenath wrote: | spaciegirl wrote: | wintermute wrote: | JerseyJohnny wrote: | Just more evidence that you are choosing to focus on the negative and ignore anything positive that is said to you. And then you turn around and blame everyone else for that choice you made. |
Not so much a choice if he's suffering from depression.
'mute |
It most definately is a choice, believe it or not. |
Oh, it's a "choice", if you really want to call it that. However, it's not a flippant choice, and it's a choice that's made without much control. Recovering from clinical depression isn't exactly as easy as putting your chin up and forcing a smile. It's easy to fake a smile, but it's just that -- fake. Depression goes a lot deeper than it seems most people seem to realize -- or choose to believe, sadly. |
If you are trying to insinuate that I do not understand how "deep" depression goes, you are being extremely presumptuous. I didn't say it was an easy choice, but it's something you have to learn how not to do and constantly work on. Just because you are depressed, you don't just sit around and wallow in it for the rest of your life never trying to help yourself and giving in, repeatedly, to self destructive tendancies and behaviors. |
No, I'm not insinuating you don't know how deep depression goes, but this is a message board and I don't know you so of course I'm not going to know what you know or don't know.
What I was trying to say is, yes, it is a choice. It is not an easy one, however. It's taken me twenty-two years to get where I am now, and even then I'm not in the best of places when it comes to my own personal problems. I'm just saying that, even though it's a choice, it can be hard to fight it and not give in and be sensitive about things people say to you. Some people just aren't in that stage in their life yet, no matter what their age. Self-destructive behaviors are hard to break. |
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AutoPilate The Order of Denderah
Joined: 18 Oct 2006 Posts: 4344 Location: Vatican City State (Holy See)
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Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 11:53 am Post subject: |
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Couple more of these nested quotes and you guys win a free bagel toaster! You can do it! _________________ Why was there BACON IN THE SOAP?! |
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wintermute The Order of Denderah
Joined: 20 Sep 2006 Posts: 4430 Location: Stalking Rae and gamejacking CiW
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Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 1:35 pm Post subject: |
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AutoPilate wrote: | Couple more of these nested quotes and you guys win a free bagel toaster! You can do it! |
Did someone mention food?!
'mute _________________ Proud member of LG15 Defense Force.
Proud member of "The Five" (who have been "Tagged" by Hymn of One).
'vote 'mute in '16! |
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Kasdeja Hymn of One
Joined: 15 Sep 2006 Posts: 7754 Location: Back...and to the left.
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Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 1:40 pm Post subject: |
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wintermute wrote: | AutoPilate wrote: | Couple more of these nested quotes and you guys win a free bagel toaster! You can do it! |
Did someone mention food?!
'mute |
I have Caramel apple Pops.
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Sheikh Gomelez Thor's Hammer
Joined: 09 Oct 2006 Posts: 1237 Location: The Garden of Forking Paths, south of Viriconium.
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Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 1:40 pm Post subject: |
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wintermute wrote: | AutoPilate wrote: | Couple more of these nested quotes and you guys win a free bagel toaster! You can do it! |
Did someone mention food?!
'mute |
That was my initial response. Then I realized AutoPilate meant we'd win the toaster. We'd have to buy the bagels ourselves... _________________ Tenser, said the Tensor.
Tenser, said the Tensor.
Tension, apprehension,
And dissension have begun. |
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Kasdeja Hymn of One
Joined: 15 Sep 2006 Posts: 7754 Location: Back...and to the left.
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Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 1:41 pm Post subject: |
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Sheikh Gomelez wrote: | wintermute wrote: | AutoPilate wrote: | Couple more of these nested quotes and you guys win a free bagel toaster! You can do it! |
Did someone mention food?!
'mute |
That was my initial response. Then I realized AutoPilate meant we'd win the toaster. We'd have to buy the bagels ourselves... |
Buy?? Pfft! I prefer homemade, freshly baked bagels. I love to cook. |
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Sheikh Gomelez Thor's Hammer
Joined: 09 Oct 2006 Posts: 1237 Location: The Garden of Forking Paths, south of Viriconium.
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Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 1:44 pm Post subject: |
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Kasdeja wrote: | Sheikh Gomelez wrote: | wintermute wrote: | AutoPilate wrote: | Couple more of these nested quotes and you guys win a free bagel toaster! You can do it! |
Did someone mention food?!
'mute |
That was my initial response. Then I realized AutoPilate meant we'd win the toaster. We'd have to buy the bagels ourselves... |
Buy?? Pfft! I prefer homemade, freshly baked bagels. I love to cook. |
So do I. But I think we should get free food for setting a record.
_________________ Tenser, said the Tensor.
Tenser, said the Tensor.
Tension, apprehension,
And dissension have begun. |
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wintermute The Order of Denderah
Joined: 20 Sep 2006 Posts: 4430 Location: Stalking Rae and gamejacking CiW
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Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 1:54 pm Post subject: |
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Kasdeja wrote: | I have Caramel apple Pops.
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Hahahahahahah Green Apple...
Sorry... That was the name of the ISP I worked for up until a year and a half ago. Whenever I see it as a flavor, it makes me laugh...
'mute _________________ Proud member of LG15 Defense Force.
Proud member of "The Five" (who have been "Tagged" by Hymn of One).
'vote 'mute in '16! |
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wintermute The Order of Denderah
Joined: 20 Sep 2006 Posts: 4430 Location: Stalking Rae and gamejacking CiW
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Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 1:55 pm Post subject: |
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Sheikh Gomelez wrote: | That was my initial response. Then I realized AutoPilate meant we'd win the toaster. We'd have to buy the bagels ourselves... |
That wasn't very nice of him!
'mute _________________ Proud member of LG15 Defense Force.
Proud member of "The Five" (who have been "Tagged" by Hymn of One).
'vote 'mute in '16! |
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Kasdeja Hymn of One
Joined: 15 Sep 2006 Posts: 7754 Location: Back...and to the left.
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Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 1:55 pm Post subject: |
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wintermute wrote: | Kasdeja wrote: | I have Caramel apple Pops.
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Hahahahahahah Green Apple...
Sorry... That was the name of the ISP I worked for up until a year and a half ago. Whenever I see it as a flavor, it makes me laugh...
'mute |
NOT just green apple...but a green apple sucker with CARAMEL on it. |
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wintermute The Order of Denderah
Joined: 20 Sep 2006 Posts: 4430 Location: Stalking Rae and gamejacking CiW
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Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 1:57 pm Post subject: |
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Kasdeja wrote: | Buy?? Pfft! I prefer homemade, freshly baked bagels. I love to cook. |
My wife is an excellent cook! Unfortunately, it shows in my waistline
'mute _________________ Proud member of LG15 Defense Force.
Proud member of "The Five" (who have been "Tagged" by Hymn of One).
'vote 'mute in '16! |
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wintermute The Order of Denderah
Joined: 20 Sep 2006 Posts: 4430 Location: Stalking Rae and gamejacking CiW
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Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 1:58 pm Post subject: |
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Kasdeja wrote: | NOT just green apple...but a green apple sucker with CARAMEL on it. |
So long as we keep the caramel away from the modem pool.
'mute _________________ Proud member of LG15 Defense Force.
Proud member of "The Five" (who have been "Tagged" by Hymn of One).
'vote 'mute in '16! |
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Kasdeja Hymn of One
Joined: 15 Sep 2006 Posts: 7754 Location: Back...and to the left.
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Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 2:01 pm Post subject: |
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wintermute wrote: | Kasdeja wrote: | Buy?? Pfft! I prefer homemade, freshly baked bagels. I love to cook. |
My wife is an excellent cook! Unfortunately, it shows in my waistline
'mute |
Look what I did to my husband...with my cooking.
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Sheikh Gomelez Thor's Hammer
Joined: 09 Oct 2006 Posts: 1237 Location: The Garden of Forking Paths, south of Viriconium.
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Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 2:08 pm Post subject: |
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Kasdeja wrote: | wintermute wrote: | Kasdeja wrote: | Buy?? Pfft! I prefer homemade, freshly baked bagels. I love to cook. |
My wife is an excellent cook! Unfortunately, it shows in my waistline
'mute |
Look what I did to my husband...with my cooking.
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What, you got him to marry you? Nothing wrong with marriage... _________________ Tenser, said the Tensor.
Tenser, said the Tensor.
Tension, apprehension,
And dissension have begun. |
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