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Lonelygirl15
Forum to post messages about Bree and Danielbeast
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lejaders
Casual Observer
Joined: 31 Oct 2006
Posts: 42
Location: Vancouver, BC
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 Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 11:41 am Post subject: |
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| maybe they cam to Canada where the legal age of consent is 14? |
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Laurin_B
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Joined: 19 Jan 2007
Posts: 609
Location: <Insert funner place here>
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| Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 11:53 am Post subject: |
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I agree, Kellylen, but the intent of stat rape laws is prevent contributing to the deliquency of a minor or corrupting innocent youths. I don't think any of that is in play in this situation. I also don't think the story is going to do anything with this. It just doesn't make sense from a plot point of view. That was my point.
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"And then Max cried 'Let the wild rumpus start!'"
"Bee-otch" ~Bumblebee
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Lurker
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| Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 12:36 pm Post subject: |
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| I think we can all agree that if Jonas were to face legal ramifications for this it would be utterly stupid. In the real world, the highly-vaunted — and supposedly infallible — law falls down on logic in this particular area all the time. It would be more stupid than if anyone really held TAAG up as criminals for kidnapping Jules or Bree in an attempt to save them. |
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hella
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Joined: 25 May 2007
Posts: 99
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| Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 12:38 pm Post subject: |
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| not only is it stat rape, but its actual rape on account of bree wasnt in a state of mind to legally give consent! |
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Lurker
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| Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 12:48 pm Post subject: |
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| hella wrote: | | not only is it stat rape, but its actual rape on account of bree wasnt in a state of mind to legally give consent! |
Apparently she played Jonas for a fool, so I think she was probably the manipulator in this case. |
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sack36
Devoted Fan
Joined: 09 May 2007
Posts: 549
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| Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 12:48 pm Post subject: |
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We have no evidence that Bree was not in a state of mind to give consent. She was going in and out of lucidity when last we saw her interaction, but we hadn't seen anything to measure her progress for several days. Her lucidity seemed stable enough that she convinced Jonas she was back to her old self. That's circumstantial and hearsay at best, but is a more likely scenario than the full rape one.
ETA: Here's the pertinent California Law:
§ 261.5 Unlawful Sexual Intercourse: Any person 21+ who engages in sexual intercourse with a person under 16 (Felony or misdemeanor); or, any person who engages in sexual intercourse with any person under 18 and where defendant is more than 3 years older than victim (Felony or misdemeanor); or, any person who engages in sexual intercourse with any person under 18 and where defendant is not more than 3 years older than victim. (Misdemeanor).
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Languorous Lass
The Order of Denderah
Joined: 24 Oct 2006
Posts: 2571
Location: Gone, baby, gone
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| Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 12:58 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you, sack! That info clears things up considerably.
And Lurker, I have to disagree with you once again on the Bree issue. I think the girl's pretty screwed up right now, and not in a position to manipulate anybody or to give consent. |
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Laurin_B
Devoted Fan
Joined: 19 Jan 2007
Posts: 609
Location: <Insert funner place here>
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| Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 1:01 pm Post subject: |
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Ok, this is the kind of thing I wanted to avoid. I think everyone can appreciate your concerns, but these kinds of accusations getting thrown around in only going to lead to trouble.
Edited: Because I'm a grammatical moron.
_________________
"And then Max cried 'Let the wild rumpus start!'"
"Bee-otch" ~Bumblebee
"You a-holes are in trouble now. Gentlemen, I'd like you to meet my friend--Optimus Prime." ~Sam, Transformers
bebo.com/LaurinB myspace.com/laurin_b
Last edited by Laurin_B on Mon Jun 11, 2007 1:04 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Lurker
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| Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 1:03 pm Post subject: |
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Susan: Thanks for getting that.
Lass: Well, she convinced Jonas that she was able to. Granted, he was blinded by romance, but I still think she'd have needed to at least appear in a sound state of mind in order for that to happen. I don't think he'd be that blinded. At least I hope not.
As for whether she's capable of manipulating anyone, she's already been doing it since November without being brainwashed by the Illuminati. You can't trust her. Ever. |
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Languorous Lass
The Order of Denderah
Joined: 24 Oct 2006
Posts: 2571
Location: Gone, baby, gone
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| Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 1:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Laurin_B wrote: | | Ok, this is the kind of thing I wanted to avoid. I think everyone can appreciate your concerns, but these kinds of accusations getting thrown around in only going to lead to trouble. |
What kind of thing, Laurin? What accusations? Were you referring to my post?
If so, I was making no "accusations" -- merely making a statement of opinion about the facts.
To Lurker -- you're displaying that bitterness about Bree again that I really don't understand. Remember, she's a fictional character, not a real woman. |
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Laurin_B
Devoted Fan
Joined: 19 Jan 2007
Posts: 609
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| Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 1:57 pm Post subject: |
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When you say you think she's unable to give consent, you imply that there was some sort of coersion involved. This defines rape.
Honestly, though, my comment wasn't directed at you. I understand your opinion, and you may be right about Bree not being in a state of mind to give consent. My comment was directed at hella. Flat-out calling it rape is pretty incindiary, and is only going to lead to trouble. That fact of the matter is we still don't know for sure what happened that night, and so until we do, I think those kinds of accusations are uncalled for.
But no, nothing directed at you. Honestly, I like how careful you've been around the subject. 
_________________
"And then Max cried 'Let the wild rumpus start!'"
"Bee-otch" ~Bumblebee
"You a-holes are in trouble now. Gentlemen, I'd like you to meet my friend--Optimus Prime." ~Sam, Transformers
bebo.com/LaurinB myspace.com/laurin_b |
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archangelica
Casual Observer
Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 38
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| Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 2:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Lurker wrote: |
As for whether she's capable of manipulating anyone, she's already been doing it since November without being brainwashed by the Illuminati. You can't trust her. Ever. |
Bree tells lies.  |
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Lurker
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| Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 2:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Languorous Lass wrote: | | If so, I was making no "accusations" -- merely making a statement of opinion about the facts. |
That's the thing, though: We don't know what the facts are. Unless Jonas was acting really, really impaired, Bree must have at least appeared to be cognizant and lucid again. You'd think Daniel would have said something if she had still been acting as child-like as she was in the video where she was banging her head against the wall and laying a beat down on the stuffed animals.
While he did suggest that Jonas may have been taking advantage of her, if she were altogether child-like, one would think he would have gone straight into beating the crap out of him, not vlogging about it. He seemed to emphasize more that she's "not our Bree" rather than that she's acting fragile.
Until we hear otherwise, I'd like to assume the best of Jonas in this case. Or at least assume that he was being halfway sensible. Same for Daniel.
| Languorous Lass wrote: | | To Lurker -- you're displaying that bitterness about Bree again that I really don't understand. Remember, she's a fictional character, not a real woman. |
And that is the only solace I have where her character is concerned.
Anyway, I'm bitter for good reason. As feral as I get where she's concerned, she's really done all the things I've pointed out about her. |
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ApotheosisAZ
The Order of Denderah
Joined: 08 Nov 2006
Posts: 3175
Location: Snoresville, Baby.
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| Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 2:13 pm Post subject: |
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| sack36 wrote: | Here's the pertinent California Law:
§ 261.5 Unlawful Sexual Intercourse: Any person 21+ who engages in sexual intercourse with a person under 16 (Felony or misdemeanor); or, any person who engages in sexual intercourse with any person under 18 and where defendant is more than 3 years older than victim (Felony or misdemeanor); or, any person who engages in sexual intercourse with any person under 18 and where defendant is not more than 3 years older than victim. (Misdemeanor). |
This applies if the cabin is located in California.
Lass, doesn't the Mann Act apply if the cabin isn't in California?
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Languorous Lass
The Order of Denderah
Joined: 24 Oct 2006
Posts: 2571
Location: Gone, baby, gone
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| Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 2:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Laurin_B wrote: | When you say you think she's unable to give consent, you imply that there was some sort of coersion involved. This defines rape.
Honestly, though, my comment wasn't directed at you. I understand your opinion, and you may be right about Bree not being in a state of mind to give consent. My comment was directed at hella. Flat-out calling it rape is pretty incindiary, and is only going to lead to trouble. That fact of the matter is we still don't know for sure what happened that night, and so until we do, I think those kinds of accusations are uncalled for.
But no, nothing directed at you. Honestly, I like how careful you've been around the subject. |
Thanks, Laurin.
| ApotheosisAZ wrote: | | Lass, doesn't the Mann Act apply if the cabin isn't in California? |
Gah. I have no idea. Criminal law isn't my field.  |
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