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0172-"The Perfect Beach" [4/13/07]
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LONGTIMELURKER
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Joined: 28 Nov 2006
Posts: 389
Location: SHHHHHHHHHHH!!!! ;) It's a secret.

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 6:52 am Post subject:

WE NEED A NEW VIDEO !! when arguments are so intense....it is a sign that we need a new video ..... _________________ The difference between Bree and Sarah is this .... Bree- Classicly Beautiful/sweet/ "pure"/Vogue Sarah-Modern Day HOT/ naughty/"dirty"/Penthouse

mellie3204
Enthusiastic Fan

Joined: 07 Oct 2006
Posts: 251
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 7:32 am Post subject:

LONGTIMELURKER wrote:

WE NEED A NEW VIDEO !!

when arguments are so intense....it is a sign that we need a new video .....

Hear Hear!!
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Jonas: I don't care, I don't care! Idon'tcareIdon'tcareIdon'tcare... I don't care. You can't come and I don't care.
- Men are from Mars

Lurker
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Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 7:36 am Post subject:

rayne100 wrote:

Hey guys,
Nothing really important to add here, but something I noticed.
Anyone notice how when Bree's dad was killed daniel was the first to react and Jonas was like "I feel so bad that I hesitated"?

Did you catch the fact that this time, Jonas was the first to react and infact positioned himself between bree and the order in order to help her get away. This time, it was Daniel that hesitated.

Just saying, it was kind of subtle that Jonas was able to redeem himself so to speak....

Jess

You may be right in that assessment of Jonas, but I don't think Daniel hesitated. It's just that his attention was on Alex and not Bree.

EternalGoddess
Devoted Fan

Joined: 21 Dec 2006
Posts: 564
Location: In the back of your closet

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 9:11 am Post subject:

Languorous Lass wrote:

EternalGoddess wrote:

I do think that Alex is doing a trade off for Jonas's parents

What makes you think that? Is there any evidence in the vids that would lead to that conclusion?

EternalGoddess wrote:

Tachyon might even make a re-apperance for this event.

I'm really getting frustrated with people ignoring what the Creators have said. "[T]here will be no more LG15 videos featuring OpAphid, Tachyon, or Brother." How much clearer can that statement be?

Those three characters were created by Glenn Rubenstein. Glenn and the Creators "have both decided to part ways." Therefore, the Creators are no longer legally permitted to use Glenn's characters.

I think that Alex might be doing a trade off for Jonas's parents because in a previous vid she did say she would do anything to help get them back. And if Alex is going to do the ceremony or surrender to the Order I don't think it's all because of Bree. I think it would be because she wants the Order to leave Jonas alone and perhapes try to do one thing right.

And as for me ignoring what the creators have said, I didn't even hear about that because I've been gone for months.
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The Truth: There is always two sides to every story.
The Task: Listening to those stories.

Languorous Lass
The Order of Denderah

Joined: 24 Oct 2006
Posts: 2571
Location: Gone, baby, gone

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 9:16 am Post subject:

EternalGoddess wrote:

I see. Interesting theory.

EternalGoddess wrote:

And as for me ignoring what the creators have said, I didn't even hear about that because I've been gone for months.

Okay, guess you didn't read the rest of the thread then.

Kasdeja
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Joined: 15 Sep 2006
Posts: 7754
Location: Back...and to the left.

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 11:40 am Post subject:

People keep mentioning Alex doing ther ceremony...I don't think that is possible. _________________ You cannot make another post so soon after your last; please try again in a short while. Bagged, tagged, sold to the butcher at the store.

Languorous Lass
The Order of Denderah

Joined: 24 Oct 2006
Posts: 2571
Location: Gone, baby, gone

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 1:14 pm Post subject:

Kasdeja wrote:

People keep mentioning Alex doing ther ceremony...I don't think that is possible.

It's not possible now, but it may have been possible back when the Resistance came up with the chart on the whiteboard.

Kasdeja
Hymn of One

Joined: 15 Sep 2006
Posts: 7754
Location: Back...and to the left.

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 1:25 pm Post subject:

I guess...but I think we are missing the point of Cassandra and Alexandra. Big time. _________________ You cannot make another post so soon after your last; please try again in a short while. Bagged, tagged, sold to the butcher at the store.

Languorous Lass
The Order of Denderah

Joined: 24 Oct 2006
Posts: 2571
Location: Gone, baby, gone

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 1:25 pm Post subject:

Kasdeja wrote:

I guess...but I think we are missing the point of Cassandra and Alexandra. Big time.

So what do you think the point might be?

Kasdeja
Hymn of One

Joined: 15 Sep 2006
Posts: 7754
Location: Back...and to the left.

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 1:29 pm Post subject:

It isnt' "that girl Cassie" and it isn't "Aunt Alex" It's Cassandra also known as Alexandra. _________________ You cannot make another post so soon after your last; please try again in a short while. Bagged, tagged, sold to the butcher at the store.

Languorous Lass
The Order of Denderah

Joined: 24 Oct 2006
Posts: 2571
Location: Gone, baby, gone

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 1:51 pm Post subject:

That is a very intriguing point. I'll be interested in seeing whether/how it plays out. (sigh) I'm having one of those moments when I suspect the Creators don't figure anything out in advance -- they just throw some stuff out in a video and see where we go with it, then make the next vids in response. Probably unfair, but . . . there it is.

Kasdeja
Hymn of One

Joined: 15 Sep 2006
Posts: 7754
Location: Back...and to the left.

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 1:53 pm Post subject:

I have to say I've thought that MANY times as well, lol. _________________ You cannot make another post so soon after your last; please try again in a short while. Bagged, tagged, sold to the butcher at the store.

Renegade
Enthusiastic Fan

Joined: 24 Jan 2007
Posts: 328
Location: Hamburg, Germany

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 3:27 pm Post subject:

Lurker wrote:

I offer my apology from both of us.

Don't you watch NCIS? "Never apologize. It's sign of weakness."

Lurker wrote:

That was pretty funny. I laughed too, actually.

It was funny. No doubt about it.

Lurker wrote:

I was making that point independently of a scenario in which Lucy and her pals were trying to kill the group. There I thought the matter was only about the Order being intent on taking Alex - in which case I was suggesting that her deciding not to go with them and BD&J trying to crank up the vehicle and take off would possibly get them all killed.

Well, what reason they have to kill them is irrelevant, in the end...the question is, who survives?

Lurker wrote:

Well, he got the gun out of the glove compartment. Whatever he couldn't store in there ... I guess it might be a big glove compartment, though.

Apparently, it was under the passenger seat. So he could fill the whole glove compartment with bullets

Lurker wrote:

"The Unthinkable Happened"?

I ment in this video - otherwise, post-Las Vegas in the desert would've been the latest "appearance" of an armed Watcher.

Lurker wrote:

In any case, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that if you're sending people to kill someone in that kind of scenario, you probably would give them guns.

Well, remember how the Watcher "reacted" to Jonas trying to hit him...didn't look like he'd actually have needed a gun to take him out.

Lurker wrote:

I can't see this as being "just because." I mean, if you feel you've got to get rid of these people, then there's probably some consideration of acceptable losses.

How is it acceptable to lose up to 6 Men in Black to kill one shooter, if you could just strangle him in sleep?
Or, if you insist on shooting them at the beach, how is it acceptable to lose 6 MiB if you have support and they don't? Just wait for them to make a stupid move? They're not trained in guerilla warfare, after all (yet).

Lurker wrote:

Renegade wrote:

So even if that was OpAphid (which it most likely wasn't) ...

What?

Didn't you hear? OpAphid disappeared! </sarcasm>
I was referring to how all the stuff above about sending people to death for no reason was referring to OpAphid, while the people "visiting" them at the beach were most likely "just" The Order.

Lurker wrote:

"Certain death"? Now that comment probably would bruise Lucy's ego. It was one guy with one gun. Not something to take lightly, no, but it's hardly certain death.

Well, Jonas may not be a trained shooter, but he'd have to be blind to not hit a target only a few meters in front of him.

Lurker wrote:

I was thinking the dark windows would have obscured any small gestures (unlike the sweeping ones Jonas was making). And since he was on the side of the SUV with them, I was thinking that would make matters difficult for B&D to pick up his slack.

The windows were clear enough to see the first car's back seat was empty, though...I guess it'd be possible to see someone aiming a firearm at you through them...
And they could also have reached for the gun from under the car...

Lurker wrote:

I guess it all depends on how tough the wooden posts are (and whether they screwed up the car if you hit one). They do look pretty sturdy, I admit.

I was actually thinking more about driving down the rock wall and dying a horrible crash death - I hadn't noticed the posts until I watched the video again after I posted.

Lurker wrote:

Oh, now that's giving them way too much credit. They wouldn't have even known what happened to Bree.

And considering how long it took them to leave Jonas' place or get a gun (even after they saw Bree's dad get wasted and even after Daniel got kidnapped), I think that's a little much to expect of them.

Current video says Jonas got the gun right after the Watcher appeared at his front door. And they probably didn't leave Jonas's house because they considered it safe - after all Daniel was kidnapped down in town, not from the house itself. It was only apparent that the actual house had been located when they got their visitor - after which Jonas immediately armed up and they left.

Lurker wrote:

Well, the jury's still out on whether she willfully put them in danger (hopefully we'll find out soon), but, yes, if that were the case, that would be a bit worse than Bree's own actions.

I still don't think this use of wording fits what happened. To suggest that they were served to Lucy puts them at the center of this, and based on what we saw in the video (and what could have been done to them, either at the beach or Alex's place or somewhere else), this particular occasion wasn't about them.

I think it might be a bit of a stretch to call it that ... but we'll see.

I'd like to point out that we still don't know why this happened. For reasons we've discussed at length, I'd say it clearly had nothing to do with wanting to harm BD&J, and it doesn't appear to have just been about Alex getting a ride. There's something going on there we don't know yet.

While that may be the case, Jonas seems to agree with me...("And she put my friends in danger, ...") - doesn't even call her "Aunt" anymore, so pissed off he is. And her actions drove Daniel so much into drinking, that Jonas doesn't find it funny anymore. They're definitely feeling betrayed ("What she did was inexcusable and unforgivable."), and there's definitely psychological harm (turning Daniel into a full-blown alcoholic).

Lurker wrote:

And if it was just about intimidating them, Alex's behavior wouldn't fit that either, so I think we can rule that out for now.

True that. But the fact that her behavior didn't make sense in that situation anyway, was what started this whole discussion - so it's not really a surprise.

Lurker wrote:

This is quite different. Knowing where you put your head down every night? That's a litle more than general knowledge of existence. That's knowing where you are at your most vulnerable.

Yes. But they were not at home asleep in the video

Lurker wrote:

By the way, I doubt the cabin's safe. A quick search of property tax records and any of us could probably find it.

In this 'verse, yes. In the Breeniverse, OpAphid didn't even manage to find the only guy in California whose parents supposedly got killed in a boat accident at a specific location which she, most likely, set up herself - either as an actual accident, or as a cover story to kidnap them. Not to mention The Order still had contact to his Aunt, who most probably knows where the house is.

And you assume she'd get the idea to actually research?

Lurker wrote:

We don't know that it's a small town to begin with (in "Spanglish," Bree suggested that the "sleepy quiet little town" persona had long since vanished) - and, again, if the location is outside the city, why send a parade down the middle of the street?

Besides, it sounds like these guys are used to tourists. Especially in the spring.

Well, we don't have spring break as a binge drinking event over here, so I've never attended such a mega party...but from what I gathered from certain videos on the internet, the attendees don't quite look like military commandos or men in black...

Lurker wrote:

Where to? While she's swimming parallel to the beach, the guys with guns can walk along the shore and wait for her to either drown, for themselves to get lucky with a bullet, or for her to give up and come let it end.

Why are you assuming she'd have to constantly move? Ever heard of "dead man"? As in, the swimming style? She'd just have to swim out and wait. Or rest, then swim somewhere else. I'd rather float in the water for a few hours and postpone dinner until I'm safe, than to risk getting shot by some freaky religious cult.

Lurker wrote:

How would that help? One or two people with a gun for each person you needed to get. And why are we assuming that they would split up in the first place? They never have before.

They never faced an assassination commando before, either.
And those two people with a gun are of no help when they're seen from kilometers away. This isn't Counter-Strike. Hitting a stationary target from a calm position isn't that easy already...and they're supposed to hit three seperate, moving targets over several hundred meters distance, most probably with simple handguns?

I'm not saying it's impossible, you should know that by now. But you keep speaking like the Order just magically appears around them and instantly shoots everyone in the head with magic aim.

Lurker wrote:

I think the analogy matches fine when you're dealing with a small time limit. The guys there to deal out death aren't going to give you a sporting chance to climb slopes.

Just because they probably wouldn't survive it doesn't change the fact that, theoretically, they'd have the possibility to do it. While your room doesn't give 'em that chance. (Not to mention that your room isn't open on the other three sides either, but hey - who's fussy?)

Lurker wrote:

Yes, but you wouldn't stand there doing nothing long enough for the people you're trying to assassinate to run a quarter of a mile down the beach and get over a rock wall. You'd be shooting while they were running.

Yes. From kilometers away on the right side, and from a slope on the rock wall.

Hmm, actually...that explains why you need those reinforcements from town - you're counting on luck rather than skill!

Lurker wrote:

Well, I still can't see any possible escape but one, and that's not going to help much in outrunning objects that move faster than sound.

Well, there's always Dea ex Machina...TACHYON! Oh wait...doesn't work anymore...
I assume you know I do see ways of escape, and that I'm not convinced that "having a chance to hit them" equals "hitting them".

Lurker wrote:

Also - and I mean this in the nicest possible way - I really think you overestimate the will to resist of unarmed people against armed people (particularly when it comes to an open space).

No. But I do see a difference between "resisting against an armed person" and "the only chance to survive". If they were in an armed robbery, and they knew they'd only have to hand over the camera to survive, I don't think they'd do anything else, either. But when they know they can either do nothing, and die for sure, or fight, and have at least a minimal chance to survive, they'd have to be totally, blindingly retarded not to fight with everything they've got.

Lurker wrote:

Well, you seemed to suggest they could either face "How could you?!"s or raised fists/a possible gun. It seems to me like only one of those would be actually fighting.

No, no...you read the "and"s wrong. It's either (scream "how could you?!" and raise the fists) or (go insane and use the gun). The point being that the first one would be a rather weak attempt at fighting back, and would not have lead to aborting the plan to kill/take them, had such a plan existed.

Lurker wrote:

You're right, that wouldn't make sense. So, in the interest of giving the Creators the benefit of the doubt, I'm going to assume what I believe is the only thing that makes sense given what went down: That they had no intention of harming BD&J and just wanted to take Alex. Anything else just doesn't make sense, as you also seem to agree (correct me if I'm wrong).

I obviously do not agree that anything else wouldn't have made sense (I did explain how they could have just aborted their killing plan, after all), but, what's more important is, that, even assuming that just taking Alex was the original and executed plan, that doesn't explain her weird mood-change mid situation, whether or not she's forced to do that or acts out of free will, just pretending to be forced, and why Alex endangered BD&J instead of just quietly leaving?

Lurker wrote:

True. Though it hardly seems to me like they can start blaming Alex for giving away their location when they've been making these public videos.

Again, general area vs. specific location - the Order didn't just show up in Mexico, or at Alex's house; they showed up at the exact beach they visited, right when they were there. A beach that apparently only Alex knew (of their group).

Lurker wrote:

The address where your pillow lay is pretty darn specific, dude.

But they weren't at Alex's house - and the Order still knew where they were.

Lurker wrote:

That never made sense either since she had his car.

Maybe the plot hole page isn't big enough yet.
Although I'm kind of afraid of how big it'd grow if we two re-watched all episodes...

Lurker wrote:

Wow. Yeah, you need the rest. It doesn't take me as long, so I kind of feel bad.

Maybe that's why Jonas backs me up instead of you

longlostposter wrote:

Ok, I'm going to get involved in this now, but without quotes.

I'm not sure we can let you in without quotes...it's kind of our secret handshake. And the size, I mean...they say size doesn't matter, but barely five paragraphs?

Juuuuuust kidding, of course

longlostposter wrote:

First of all, there was no need for Alex to tell the Order where the beach was. They have used tracking devices before, and there could be one on the car, or even possibly implanted in Bree. This is not an issue at all.

This is not an issue, right, because once the Creators say the Order had bugged them all along, they're gonna open plot holes as large as Russia. I don't think it's a good idea to explain their sudden appearance with a tracking device, simply because it'd lead to dozens of "Why didn't they do this when..." questions.

Not to mention Alex's "I had no choice" doesn't fit this theory.

longlostposter wrote:

Secondly, this was the perfect opportunity to kill BDJ, if the Order wanted to do so. The area was secluded, there was no one around to hear gunshots, and if they tried to drive away, the Order would simply shoot one of their tires out, and disable the vehicle.

I am not gonna repost everything I said about this topic, but take note that I have seen several videos right from American television where fleeing people kept driving after their vehicles and tires were damaged. Driving with a flat tire would suck, yes...

...but the alternative is dying through headshot at deserted beach in Mexico.

longlostposter wrote:

I am thinking that what the Order wants from BDJ has more to do with mind-control, or obtaining information through interrogations. How do we know the interrogator got everything he wanted from them when the Order had them, since they escaped? They may have not been done with them.

They most certainly weren't done with them - otherwise the interrogator or his henchman wouldn't have had to chase them in the desert.

longlostposter wrote:

OK, done for now.

Is it bad I have this urge to make jokes about quickies, short ones, and finishing early?

Hmm. *looks at post length* You know what? I'm a foreigner. I don't have to speak good English. *submits*

P.S.: Lurker and me:

Edited because there was an unmarked, unanswered quote in the middle.
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Last edited by Renegade on Mon Apr 16, 2007 3:45 pm; edited 2 times in total

Languorous Lass
The Order of Denderah

Joined: 24 Oct 2006
Posts: 2571
Location: Gone, baby, gone

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 3:33 pm Post subject:

Renegade wrote:

P.S.: Lurker and me:

Me and both of you:

Renegade
Enthusiastic Fan

Joined: 24 Jan 2007
Posts: 328
Location: Hamburg, Germany

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 3:54 pm Post subject:

Languorous Lass wrote:

Me and both of you:

Pfft. You said you'd reply back on page 17, before Lurker and me had even started...it's not my fault you don't want to play...

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