Lonelygirl15

[raveneffect]

I'm not aware that Crowley ever mentions anything about "believing" in "Free Will" anywhere in his writings.

To the contrary, he suspected that by the time we hit adolescence, we've become so "trained" by society's silly morals that we wouldn't know what to do with a "free will" if it came gift-wrapped and tattoed with our name on it.

This is where the concepts of discipline, and what Crowley defined as the "True Will" (which I'm assuming you're badly confusing with "free will") come in. In Crowley's system, one's True Will (their "purpose" or "role" in human evolution) can only be realized once the mind is focused and pinpointed, much like the tip of a pencil. He also recognizes a "lower will", which is much more a reflection of socially-imposed guilt/shame, and which usually works against the True Will. It is this lower will, which usually functions automatically and without much thought, which must not be "fed" with the temptation of everyday superficial trivialities. Therefore, what people usually define as a "free will" is really just a superimposition of the limited reality-tunnel that social training induces.

The concept is much like the id/ego/superego model of basic psychology. Using this analogy, id=True Will, superego=social conscience, ego=a false will, contrary to the true will, and a product of the superego.

Crowley was very scientific, don't forget. If Bree's parents are influenced by Crowley, they have no "philosophical" resistance to Bree having a social life. They merely recognize "society" - with all its trappings and distractions - as being a major hindrance in one's personal realization of their True Will. I know on the surface, this may seem paradoxical, but Crowley's practice was anything but superficial: in order to be Free, one must first be bound to their divine purpose.

[Truth-in-Science]

Excellent!! Well-stated, raveneffect.

[rachelalexis]

[raveneffect]

Food, sex and violence give us the means to continue the race.

The True Will gives us the meaning to continue the race.

And there you have the difference.

[curriguy]

[JustAnotherLonelyGirl.]

::applauds raveneffect::

[sparrow]

Often parents can be even harder on their kids than the actual religion. I grew up Catholic, and my mother's favorite thing to say to make us feel guilty was, "I really think you need to go to Confession."

I got this the most during the angst-filled teen years, when I would get so upset I'd end up screaming and crying and arguing with my parents.

The thing is that many of the things she thought needed disciplining/confessing weren't really all that sinful, at least not to the point that if I died at that very moment I'd go straight to hell, which was the implication of what she said.

I think this is Bree's parents version of what my mother would say to me. The implication that you've done something so bad that you are currently not worthy of the religious activity (in my case, Communion, in hers, the Ceremony).

[heybitch]

Alot of what you guys - in this strand and others - seems too logical.
Since when were shows so thoughtfully logical?

[tannhaus]

Very well said. But, it appears that the person below you either can't read, or refuses to understand.

I've met a lot of Thelemites in my 16 years of being one. I've met a lot of Thelemic parents during that time as well. I can honestly say that I've never met a single one that didn't want their children socializing with non-thelemites (They encouraged their child to see other points of view).

[lonelygirl]

[asenath]

[tannhaus]

[asenath]

[tannhaus]

[asenath]