Difference between revisions of "LGPedia:Lucy's Balcony/archive"

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This is the archive of discussions from [[LGPedia:Lucy's Balcony|Lucy's Balcony]] that are no longer active or have been resolved.  To revive an old issue, please start a new thread at [[LGPedia:Lucy's Balcony|Lucy's Balcony]].
 
This is the archive of discussions from [[LGPedia:Lucy's Balcony|Lucy's Balcony]] that are no longer active or have been resolved.  To revive an old issue, please start a new thread at [[LGPedia:Lucy's Balcony|Lucy's Balcony]].
  
== Bots ==
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Finally, for discussions deader than Bree's dad, please visit [[LGPedia:Lucy's Balcony/archive2|the older archives]].
  
This might be way out of our league here, but has anyone thought about creating a bot for LGPedia? It could do things like add [[Template:Tag]] to all the articles in [[:Category:YouTube tags]], make renaming categories easier, and other tedious tasks. I have some programming experience, but I'm not sure what programming language would be needed to make a bot. Does anyone know or are there any thoughts on the idea?--[[User:Jonpro|Jonpro]] 23:06, 13 March 2007 (CDT)
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== OpAphid mess ==
  
: Creating a bot is ''way'' out of my league. Hell, I'm proud when my ''templates'' don't explode upon first use. Here's the wikipedia guide to bots: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Creating_a_bot]. I can authorize a bot if somebody else can program one. --[[User:JayHenry|JayHenry]] 23:14, 13 March 2007 (CDT)
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Silver recently tried to unify the OpAphid bloglines, and the situation currently is kind of a giant mess. We need a consent on how we're going to treat the series and all connected blogs.
 +
*Before, we had separate templates and "series" strands for Brother, Tachyon and OpAphid. The only thing crossing over was [[Miss Me?]], which used [[Template:Blog]] rather than Template:Aphid. Apart from that, all bloggers were independent from each other, using their own templates.
 +
*Now, all pre-canon and parallel videos, including Brother's and Tachyon's, use Template:Aphid, up until Miss Me?, which uses Blog, and all following ones use the brand new [[Template:Redearth88]].
 +
I was tasked with deciding whether to revert this change or not. In theory, Silver's system does make more sense. We do not have separate bloglines for Daniel and Jonas either, and neither do we do that in series like Maddison Atkins. However, since this is a rather drastic departure from our previous (year-old) system, which, among other things, means that videos by OpAphid use three different templates by now, I'd like to hear everyone's opinion on this before I go through and revert dozens of videos, when it's actually a logical change.
  
::Having a bot for certain tasks might be nice.  I was under the impression that you could "borrow" bots from Wikipedia... as in, use their source code somehow.  It's so way out of my league though that even if I were given the code for the bot, I wouldn't even know what to do with it, or how to run it.  Hm... I should start making friends at Wikipedia.  [[User:OwenIsCool|OwenIsCool]] 23:24, 13 March 2007 (CDT)
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On the other hand, it's rather unfortunate that Tachyon's vids have the look and feel of OpAphid now, so if we do keep it the way it is, we should go all the way and create a "neutral" theme for the Aphid template, just as we have for other series. (Not to mention that the transformation wasn't 100% pretty, and all videos would need a post-change checkup of the links and variable settings.)
  
:::Thanks for the link, Jay. I did some researching, and it appears that OwenIsCool is right. I'm going to try to get a bot set up using the 'python wikipediabot'. I'm still not sure exactly how to do it, but I'm working on it. I'll go ahead an create an account because it seems like that's one of the first steps to getting it to work. The username is [[User:LGBot]].--[[User:Jonpro|Jonpro]] 23:55, 13 March 2007 (CDT)
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In addition, I just heard that it's, for some reason necessary that the new vids use the RedEarth template, so changing the post-canon vids over is kind of out of question.
  
::::Sounds cool!  Keep us posted.  Once we've tested it, and if we're sure it's not going to malfunction, then I can authorize it as a bot.  The advantage of officially making it a bot is that its edits won't automatically show up in recent changes -- that way if you edit 500 video tags it won't flood recent changes.  The disadvantage, is also that its edits won't automatically show up, but we can see them by clicking on (show bots) or by checking: [[Special:Contributions/LGBot]]. --[[User:JayHenry|JayHenry]] 00:40, 14 March 2007 (CDT)
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Even though I loathe the work, I, personally, vote for a cleaned-up unification, including a new template theme, simply because we're doing it everywhere else as well, and it actually makes sense to have Brother's and Tachyon's videos, which are more or less a back-and-forth in communication, lined up next to each other.
  
:::::Ok, cool. Just to make sure, the language code for this wiki is 'en', right? I haven't gotten everything to work yet and want to make sure that's not the problem.--[[User:Jonpro|Jonpro]] 12:05, 14 March 2007 (CDT)
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Still, the old system is over a year old, and it's a rather drastic change, so...what's ''your'' opinion?
 +
:~ [[User:Renegade|Renegade]] ([[User talk:Renegade|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Renegade|contribs]]) 14:29, 5 November 2007 (CST)
  
::::::This may not look impressive, but I finally got the bot to work with this [http://www.lonelygirl15.com/lgpedia/index.php?title=User%3ALGBot&diff=28102&oldid=28050 edit]. I'm going to try to test it out in a few other ways to make sure everything is working correctly.--[[User:Jonpro|Jonpro]] 15:00, 14 March 2007 (CDT)
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:It seems like nobody has replied to this for a while, so I thought I'd chime in with my thoughts. After thinking this through, I agree with the cleaned-up unification that Ren proposed.
  
:::::::Ok, I think the bot is working fine now. I had it run through some of the video transcripts and replace <nowiki>''(whatever)'' </nowiki> with <nowiki>(''whatever'')</nowiki>. I have to verify every change before it makes the edit, so it is unlikely to "go out of control" and start making crazy or unproductive edits. Other than that, are there any suggestions for more testing that should be done before this can really be put to use?--[[User:Jonpro|Jonpro]] 16:00, 14 March 2007 (CDT)
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:Since it ''has'' been so long, if no one objects in the next day or so, I'd say you can go ahead and go for it :) --[[User:Zoey|Zoey]] 00:03, 11 January 2008 (CST)
  
==Cast and crew template?==
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::Okay, I changed the template and marked the other three for deletion, but it's been so long, I forgot what I wanted to clean up :/
Would a cast and crew template be a good idea?  We could have picture, name, birthday, role in series, first appearance/credit and a link to the newly organized [[:Category:Credits|production credits]].  I was thinking it should look like [[Template:Person]], but I'm not ''crazy'' about the person template.   Perhaps a snazzier "person" template and a new [[Template:Crew]]? --[[User:JayHenry|JayHenry]] 22:50, 26 February 2007 (CST)
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::I checked all pages, and the template was applied correctly, the numbers go through, they're linked correctly and all have bloggers. Lookin' good to me.
:Yep the Person template could use a little TLC, huh?  How would the Crew template be different from a Person template?  If it's not too different, perhaps adding a couple of fields to the "snazzed up" person template would do the trick.  [[User:OwenIsCool|OwenIsCool]] 00:02, 27 February 2007 (CST)
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:::~ [[User:Renegade|Renegade]] ([[User talk:Renegade|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Renegade|contribs]]) 23:55, 15 January 2008 (CST)
  
::I whipped up a potential look for a new character template.  If people like, I could adapt it to real people too.  The preliminary version is here at [[Template talk:Test]].  It looks best in Firefox. --[[User:JayHenry|JayHenry]] 17:30, 5 March 2007 (CST)
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== The new favicon ==
  
:::I put up a first draft of the crew template at [[Template:Crew]].  A test run of it is in place on the [[Mesh Flinders]] and the [[Jackson Davis]] pages.  Input, as always, much appreciated. --[[User:JayHenry|JayHenry]] 12:35, 13 March 2007 (CDT)
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Who the fuck is responsible for the new favicon and how can I punish him?
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:~ [[User:Renegade|Renegade]] ([[User talk:Renegade|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Renegade|contribs]]) 15:59, 16 November 2007 (CST)
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*sorry to be dense, renegade, but what's a favicon? --[[User:Milowent|Milowent]] 16:05, 16 November 2007 (CST)
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::'''Fav'''orites '''Icon''' - the ugly black thing in your browser's title bar/tab row, next to "LGPedia:Lucy's Balcony".
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:::~ [[User:Renegade|Renegade]] ([[User talk:Renegade|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Renegade|contribs]]) 21:11, 16 November 2007 (CST)
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::::Ah, i see it now.  Thanks. --[[User:Milowent|Milowent]] 22:10, 16 November 2007 (CST)
  
::::Looks goo to me!<span style="color:Blue">'''''-BRUCKER [[Image:EyeBlueSmall.jpg]] ([[User:Brucker|Home]]/[[User talk:Brucker|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Brucker|Contribs]])'''''</span> 16:04, 13 March 2007 (CDT)
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:It's Ugly....With a capital "U" ... I mean....What were they thinking?! Nasty :( --[[User:Free2liv4evr|free2liv4evr]] 17 Nov 2007 00:08 (PST)
  
== Sidebar ==
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::I completely agree. We need to start a protest or something.--[[User:Jonpro|Jonpro]] 14:28, 17 November 2007 (CST)
  
I was thinking of changing the sidebar a bit.  My proposal is to break out another "community" section:
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== Image Redirecting ==
  
* lg15 links the same.
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At first, I was willing to put up with it... but now, I am finding image redirecting OUT OF CONTROL. The idea is to use it on pages like Characters or something.. when someone could click the image, because they'd think it would take them to that character's page. We do NOT need to redirect every single image is uploaded.
* navigation
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** Main Page
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** List of Videos
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** AphidPedia
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** Recent Changes
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** Random page
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* Community
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** Welcome
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** Community Portal
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** Lucy's Balcony
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** Help
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Any other ideas? Does that seem like a good idea? --[[User:JayHenry|JayHenry]] 17:32, 5 March 2007 (CST)
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Redirecting makes everything harder to keep track of... harder to see what images have been categorized and what haven't... harder to read any image descriptions or whatever, etc. Plus, plenty of times images are used in more than one place, and if they redirect to a certain page, it may not take you to the page you want to go to. And.. also, it's a lot harder when trying to snag an image for use on a page if you have to go to the page they redirect to, then unredirect yourself back to the image and snag the URL, and yeah... I could go oooon and onnnn.
  
Maybe Caping lg15? other then, it would look great. --[[User:Iris2009|TJ Marsh]] 18:40, 5 March 2007 (CST)
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Image redirection used to be the exception, not the rule. And ever since that has changed, it has been a nightmare for me. So please, can we please go back to making it the EXCEPTION again? Pretty please? --[[User:Zoey|Zoey]] 01:36, 17 November 2007 (CST)
  
:I'm sorry, what does "Caping lg15" mean? --[[User:JayHenry|JayHenry]] 10:41, 6 March 2007 (CST)
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:I've never really like the idea of image redirecting although I do see it's usefulness. You'd think there would be a way of having an image link to a certain page rather than the image page itself. I'm sure I'm not the first person to bring this up. Has anyone heard if this is possible, or if not, why this functionality hasn't been added?--[[User:Jonpro|Jonpro]] 14:28, 17 November 2007 (CST)
  
::Capitalizing, perhaps?--[[User:Jonpro|Jonpro]] 14:34, 6 March 2007 (CST)
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::If there is a way to do it, I haven't yet figured it out. We do not, however, have the latest version of MediaWiki, so it's possible the functionality has been added, but that we do not have the ability to use it. I agree, there is a time and a place for image redirecting, but I really believe that redirecting every image that comes up on the pedia is WAY overkill and ultimately does more bad than good. --[[User:Zoey|Zoey]] 17:55, 17 November 2007 (CST)
  
:::Ah, so it says LG15 links insteadGood idea! I agree! --[[User:JayHenry|JayHenry]] 14:37, 6 March 2007 (CST)
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}:::There is no such feature in MediaWiki; there would be a more or less convenient way if this installation supported embedding of "external" images, but whoever made the config turned that of. Should we get FTP access to the installation, I could change that, and one could use the image path instead of a descriptive text in normal external link code. (At least theoretically. And practically, I'd probably write a template to do that.)
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:::We do have [[Template:Imagelink]], though, which superimposes a link area over an image.
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:::@jonpro: I assume the reason for the lack of this feature is that the MediaWiki software is developed for Wikipedia, which primarily uses free licenses - these often include an attribution clause, and that attribution wouldn't happen if a click on the image didn't lead to the image page.
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::::~ [[User:Renegade|Renegade]] ([[User talk:Renegade|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Renegade|contribs]]) 18:24, 17 November 2007 (CST)
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:A good way to take care of the problem is to install the [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:ImageMap ImageMap Extension], assuming we can. All of the templates would need to be updated, but it would be probably be trivial to do so. - [[User:Shiori|Shiori]] 10:19, 24 November 2007 (CST)
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::I don't know why I labeled that as a minor edit, but I thought I'd mention that that's the only way (other than the template Renegade mentioned) that I've found to do that without redirects. - [[User:Shiori|Shiori]] 10:28, 24 November 2007 (CST)
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::I didn't mention the extension for a simple reason: Even if we ''could'' install it (which we can't until we get FTP access), the syntax is hardly something you'd want to impose on a casual user. Simply being able to use the address of an image as the link text would be a lot easier to comprehend. We're talking about
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<pre><imagemap>
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Image:Foo.jpg|200px|picture of a foo
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rect 0 0 199 199  [[Foo type A]]
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desc bottom-left
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</imagemap></pre>
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::vs. <code>[page address image address]</code>.
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:::~ [[User:Renegade|Renegade]] ([[User talk:Renegade|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Renegade|contribs]]) 15:28, 24 November 2007 (CST)
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:::Would that really be that difficult to put into a template, thoughFor instance, for the character listing just plop this into the code in place of the current image call:
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<pre><imagemap>
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Image:{{{image}}}|{{{imagewidth|{{ #expr: {{{width|240}}}/2 }}}}}px
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rect 0 0 1000 1000  [[{{{charactername}}}]]
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desc none
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</imagemap></pre>
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:::It was just a suggestion, though. The other stuff would require template changes anyway. The image address being able to be used as the link description would be awesome, but it still doesn't exist... :/ - [[User:Shiori|Shiori]] 18:19, 24 November 2007 (CST)
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::::Hmm.  Actually (again, if uploading an extension were possible), the [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:ImageLink ImageLink Extension] is a lot better. - [[User:Shiori|Shiori]] 18:29, 24 November 2007 (CST)
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::::Also thought I'd add that we probably shouldn't use [[Template:Imagelink]], as [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Usability/Clickable_images Wikipedia is phasing it out] due to many problems it creates. - [[User:Shiori|Shiori]] 18:44, 24 November 2007 (CST)
  
::::Yeah, all of them should be capitalized, I think. Those options look good to me, Jay. <span style="color:Blue">'''''-BRUCKER [[Image:EyeBlueSmall.jpg]] ([[User:Brucker|Home]]/[[User talk:Brucker|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Brucker|Contribs]])'''''</span> 18:04, 6 March 2007 (CST)
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==Jumper/watchyourjack/whatweird==
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I'm starting a discussion on what type of exposure the [[Jumper]] videos should get. Keep in mind that the watchyourjack videos have a separate storyline from lonelygirl15, but are considered canon. In My Opinion, The Jumper Series should be organized like Redearth88 (but using the lg15 person template and the lg15 and whatweird categories). What does everyone else think? --[[User:FH14|FH14]] 11:52, 24 January 2008 (EST)
  
::::Well, it turns out that the small capitalization is hardwired into the MediaWiki software.  It can't be fixed from [[MediaWiki:Sidebar]].  Perhaps there's another way to do it, but if so, I don't know how and I don't feel like tooling around all night at [http://mediawiki.org MediaWiki.org] for the answer. --[[User:JayHenry|JayHenry]] 21:42, 6 March 2007 (CST)
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:I'm disagree, for a very simple reason: It won't be important. Forget the canon thing for a moment, and view this realistically: It's a ''commercial''. Nothing more. Yes, it has been included in a few canon videos, but the truth is, the moment the advertising contract is over, we'll never hear from Jack again, the Creators won't including "jumping" of any kind, nor will whatweird ever play a role again. On my talk page, you brought Nikki B. as the closest example - but as you yourself noted, Jack is not LG-based. Nikki B. is an important, if minor, influence to the universe. Hell, she even saved the kids' asses in the last season finale. Whereas this advertising campaign has no influence on the plot whats-o-ever. Think about it:
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:*Whatweird.com was mentioned a dozen times, yet it has never played a role in the plot
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:*Jack has been mentioned and shown several times, yet has never played a role in the plot
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:If it was something or someone like Nikki B. or Spencer, that/who leaves a lasting impression on the plot or the community, I'd agree. But the important point is, ''Jack doesn't''. Jack will vanish, and it'll be like he never existed. The sole purpose of his appearances is drawing hits to whatweird and the Jumper ARG. He has nothing to do with LG15. He is basically living [[Product placement#Ice Breakers Sours Gum|Ice Breakers Sours Gum]]. Just like all product placements, he's somewhat noteworthy. But not noteworthy enough to create a whole array of pages for him.
  
== New admin -- [[User:Jonpro|Jonpro]] ==
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:'''Jack's story is totally and entirely irrelevant to LG15, and, as such, there is no reason we archive it at LGPedia.''' Now, one might argue that Redearth88's story, for example, is not relevant to the plot either, but a) such thoughts are exactly the reason we're currently doing the [[LGPedia:Lucy's Balcony/Fanfic revamp|fanfic revamp]] (to determine what's notable enough to stay), and b) Redearth is at least lg- and community-based. Jack is neither. Jack has a totally independent universe that only crosses with "ours" because it needs exposure. Nothing more.
  
I'm pleased to announce that [[User:Jonpro|Jonpro]] has been appointed the newest administrator on the LGPedia.  Jonpro has been a reliable contributor to the LGPedia since first arriving in November.  He's undertaken the massive task of organizing the YouTube tags on all the LG videos, on top of hundreds of edits fixing pages, keeping our style consistent and keeping things categorized. Congrats, Jonpro. --[[User:JayHenry|JayHenry]] 13:56, 8 March 2007 (CST)
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:Give Jack one summary page where everything is explained, with a whatweird section, a jumping section, an episode list with links to youtube, and link to the Cs admitting it's advertisement. And then be done with it. We're LGPedia, not JumperPedia.
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::~ [[User:Renegade|Renegade]] ([[User talk:Renegade|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Renegade|contribs]]) 11:41, 24 January 2008 (CST)
  
:Thanks [[User:JayHenry|JayHenry]], and I hope I can be a help to everyone. I'm new to this admin thing, but I'm sure I'll catch on :) --[[User:Jonpro|Jonpro]] 15:32, 8 March 2007 (CST)
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:I'm agreeing with Ren on this one. The current sections used for the Jumper stuff seem more than sufficient. - [[User:Shiori|Shiori]] 07:48, 29 January 2008 (CST)
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::I just thought I'd add that I don't even think the Jumper page is necessary; it just seems superfluous. - [[User:Shiori|Shiori]] 09:11, 30 January 2008 (CST)
  
Kongrats man! --[[User:Iris2009|TJ Marsh]] 18:36, 8 March 2007 (CST)
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:::Renegade said: "He is basically living Ice Breakers Sours Gum."  Haha.  It does feel a bit weird to work too much on fan-run pages for advertising, now that the mystery behind jack's connection to lg15 is over.--[[User:Milowent|Milowent]] 16:12, 31 January 2008 (CST)
  
== [[Template:Tag]] ==
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::::Okay guys, I think it's about time we reached a conclusion on this thing. I moved all the Jumper-related pages (unless I missed some) into [[:Category:Jumper]]. Here's a rundown of each page:
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::::*[[Whatweird.com]] - I think this page should stay since the site was mentioned in several lg15/km videos and there is also an obvious connection to Jack.
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::::*[[Suzie]] - After scanning this page, it seems to contain a nice narrative of the goings-on at the whatweird site. There might be a better place to put this information, but I don't think that's too big of a concern.
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::::*Jumper ARG Characters - This page seems excessive to me. As has been stated, the purpose of LGPedia is not to chronicle the Jumper stuff to any large extent, so I think this page has to go.
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::::*[[Jumper]] - Okay, right now this page is modeled off of the other ARG pages ([[Redearth88]], [[Portal:OpAphid ARG|AphidPedia]]), but that doesn't really work for Jumper. Again, this has been stated, but Jumper is not based off of lg15 (like those two are) and therefore doesn't deserve the same kind of treatment. Also, information about the story is found on other pages. So we should be able to use this page to talk about the crossover between the Jumper story and lonelygirl15. So far this has taken place through Taylor, so information about those videos can be found on this page. Also, if not included elsewhere, other references to Jumper-related things can be here. Basically the point is that we're not chronicling Jumper like we are Redearth88 and OpAphid (or ''did'', I should say) because they aren't the same type of thing.
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::::*[[Jack]] - This page seems pretty good as it is, although we may have to work on where we're going to keep all the aspects of the story somewhat.
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::::Okay, that's what I came up with (with Zoey's help). Feel free to add your opinion about it but as this seems to be pretty close to the general consensus, we'll probably end up doing something like this. Thanks!--[[User:Jonpro|Jonpro]] 22:37, 1 February 2008 (CST)
  
What do others think? Would a template like this be helpful? I'm not very good with wording and such, so that might need to be improved, but what do people think of the general idea? Basically, it would be put on every YouTube tag page and <nowiki>|</nowiki>disambig would be added for pages that are also disambiguation pages.--[[User:Jonpro|Jonpro]] 20:15, 13 March 2007 (CDT)
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''I must preface this with an "I'm very tired so forgive me in advance if what I'm about to say doesn't make sense :P"''
  
: I think it's what we should have done when we first made the tags link 5 months ago.  I def like it, but won't it take ''forever'' to swap out?  I feel bad asking anyone to do that. How many tags are there?  400?  More? --[[User:JayHenry|JayHenry]] 20:18, 13 March 2007 (CDT)
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Anyways, I agree with the way Jon laid this out, but I wanted to kind of explain the reasoning behind it. There are three different aspects that make this whole crazyness up - lonelygirl15, the Jumper promo stuff (Jack, Suzie, Whatweird.com), and the lonelygirl15-Jumper integration.
  
::At least that many. I wouldn't mind pitching in though, and if we can get a few more volunteers, it really won't take that long. Anyone up for some tedious work?--[[User:Jonpro|Jonpro]] 20:37, 13 March 2007 (CDT)
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So to look at these one at a time:
 +
*'''Lonelygirl15''' - lonelygirl15 is its own show. It has nothing to do with any of the happenings in the Jumper movie or any of what's going on with Jack/Suzie/Whatweird.com. Any mention of it in the series itself should go on the integration page (see below).
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*'''The Jumper Promo Stuff''' (Jack, Suzie, Whatweird.com) - This is something that can be covered, but does NOT need to be covered in depth. The lonelygirl15 people are running a nice story over there, totally seperate from lg15.. .just related to the Jumper stuff. A FEW pages to track the happenings there are fine, which is what we have in pages for Jack, Suzie, and Whatweird.com. We do not need to get too much into it, though, as it is not relevant to anything beyond the promo.
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*'''The Integration''' - Like Jon said, the page that covers the integration (which I actually think should be moved from "Jumper" to "Jumper Integration") should be used to talk about the crossover between the watchyourjack and loneylgirl15 stories. It can mention Taylor and Jack.. and include links to other pages that might provide more information on both of their stories repsectively. It can also include the full list of videos in the Jack-Taylor crossover, if you'd like. There can also be a section where we keep track of when other characters (in either LG15 or KM) have made shoutouts to the whatweird site, etc. I think that would make it a really great page that would keep it much more in line with the kind of information LGPedia should be covering.
  
:::Hmm... I just thought of one other thing, not sure if it matters. But I think these will all become "articles."  That raises two issues: 1) anybody using randompage will get a tag about half the time and 2) it will say that we have over 1,000 articles. Unless anyone knows away around that. Just a thought, i don't really see it as a reason not to go ahead with it. --[[User:JayHenry|JayHenry]] 20:50, 13 March 2007 (CDT)
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I think the treatment of these pages as Jon and I laid out will best keep with the needs and goals of LGPedia in covering this story. Hopefully this all makes sense.... please let me know if you're confused about any of it.. I'll try to check in on this page when I'm a little less tired :) --[[User:Zoey|Zoey]] 00:49, 2 February 2008 (CST)
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:I think I understand what your saying Zoey (I had posted an earlier comment in this discussion on how I was a bit rash about proposing that Jumper be covered in so much depth, but it seems that the school computer I was using didn't process it). I think you're right. If everyone else agrees, I'll restructure the Jumper/Jumper Integration page in the way you and Jon proposed. (Also, I marked that massive Jumper character page for deletion, that was a mistake on my part. However, I re-created the pre-existing Paladin page I had dirived it from for organizational/informational/it's-info-that-is-difficult-to fully-integrate-in-any-other-article-in-a-way-that-makes-sense purposes.) --[[User:FH14|FH14]] 12:45, 02 February 2008 (EST)
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::I think the Paladin page should be integrated with the Jack page, or the crossover page. It'll never be more than just a stub anyway, so I see no reason for it to exist. - [[User:Shiori|Shiori]] 13:22, 2 February 2008 (CST)
  
::::Yeah, good point. No solution for #1, but I don't think #2 will be a problem. I'm guessing they'll be part of the [[Special:Statistics|"articles that aren't really articles"]] (stubs, redirects, etc). Not sure, but that's my guess.--[[User:Jonpro|Jonpro]] 20:57, 13 March 2007 (CDT)
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::FH14, I think the fact that the paladin info doesn't fit any other page is exactly the point of this whole discussion - it doesn't fit anywhere because this is ''lg''pedia, not jumperpedia.
 +
::I vote for integration rather than a standalone page as well.
 +
:::~ [[User:Renegade|Renegade]] ([[User talk:Renegade|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Renegade|contribs]]) 03:03, 3 February 2008 (CST)
 +
:I just redid the Jumper page, to be more of a "how the movie has integrated into the series" page. It's kind of crappy, though, so feel more than free to modify it. The paladin page is going to be merged with the Jack page, since it a) has nothing to do with Whatweird, which is being featured heavily on the redone page, and b) paladins aren't playing that big of a role. - [[User:Shiori|Shiori]] 09:26, 5 February 2008 (CST)
  
==The party guests==
+
==Buckshot==
So as of [[Uncle Dan]] and [[Uncle Dan (D-Bone Remix)]], we have like 10 new charactersMost of these now have their own articles, which consist of one or two sentences saying that they were at the party.  This is bad form... perhaps we could have a page called "party guests" and list them there with short descriptions?  Then we could just make their character names a redirect to the party guests page.  If one of the characters turns out to have a larger role, we can move their info to a separate page.  [[User:OwenIsCool|OwenIsCool]] 16:44, 16 March 2007 (CDT)
+
OK, i created a page on [[Buckshot]].  What level of treatment should he get?  Seriously though, if there are more behind the scenes vids coming out, we probably want to track them some wayIncluding the 2007 holiday video.  --[[User:Milowent|Milowent]] 12:34, 31 January 2008 (CST)
:I actually think starting off with a picture would be a great help. I'm having trouble putting faces to the character names.--[[User:Immortal1|Immortal1]] 16:56, 16 March 2007 (CDT)
+
:I'm going to take a stab in the dark and say that, assuming Zoey allows the page to stay, it should only be mentioned on the [[Yousef Abu-Taleb]] page. I already did that, though I don't know whether I should have put it in the Portrays part of the template... - [[User:Shiori|Shiori]] 13:04, 31 January 2008 (CST)
::I got a few pictures up on a few of the pages. <span style="color:Blue">'''''-BRUCKER [[Image:EyeBlueSmall.jpg]] ([[User:Brucker|Home]]/[[User talk:Brucker|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Brucker|Contribs]])'''''</span> 18:43, 16 March 2007 (CDT)
+
::well, who cares what zoey says!!! :-)  but if the majority is against it, away it will go i guess.  i do feel that we should see what other behind the scenes vids are released before Season 3 debuts, and then figure out a way to cover them all.  The Buckshot page has already been viewed 200 times in a few hours, clearly its in demand! --[[User:Milowent|Milowent]] 16:09, 31 January 2008 (CST)
  
== costs of a site like this ==
+
== Page/Category naming conventions ==
  
Just wondering how you guys are doing on donations and what it costs to run a site like this?
+
Maybe this isn't the best time to bring this up, but this has been bugging me a little bit for a while now. When KM joined our ranks here, we ended up with a variety of different variations for KM versions of pages. For example, we have:
 +
*{{lie|Characters|'''}} / {{lie|KM Characters|'''}}
 +
*{{lie|LG15 Soundtrack|'''}} / {{lie|KateModern Soundtrack|'''}}
 +
*{{lie|Notable Details|'''}} / {{lie|KateModern notable details|'''}}
 +
*{{lie|Category:LG15 videos|'''}} / {{lie|Category:KateModern videos|'''}}
 +
*{{lie|Category:Behind the scenes|'''}} / {{lie|Category:KM Behind the scenes|'''}}
 +
*etc.
 +
Not to mention that some of these also have capitalization inconsistencies and deviations from convention. So my point of this is that I'd like to go through all of these pages and clean them up. First we have to decide what we want the conventions to be. Right now, we seem to have a bias toward LG15 simply because it came first. So there was no reason to name the [[Cameos]] page, for example, "Lonelygirl15 cameos". Now, since we cover both series, I think they should be treated equally. My proposal is to use prefixes of "Lonelygirl15" (not "LG15") for lonelygirl15 pages and "KateModern" (not "KM") for KateModern pages. The same would apply for categories. Capitalization should also be standardized: the first word ''must'' be capitalized, but all others should be lowercase unless they are normally capitalized in a sentence. Using the same examples as above, these would be the new names:
 +
*{{lie|Lonelygirl15 characters|'''}} / {{lie|KateModern characters|'''}}
 +
*{{lie|Lonelygirl15 soundtrack|'''}} / {{lie|KateModern soundtrack|'''}}
 +
*{{lie|Lonelygirl15 notable details|'''}} / {{lie|KateModern notable details|'''}}
 +
*{{lie|Category:Lonelygirl15 videos|'''}} / {{lie|Category:KateModern videos|'''}}
 +
*{{lie|Category:Lonelygirl15 behind the scenes|'''}} / {{lie|Category:KateModern behind the scenes|'''}}
 +
*etc.
 +
I think it's important to leave redirects in tact for these pages instead of deleting them, not only to keep links here working, but also links from external sites. So, what do people think of this proposal? Any suggestions, alterations, etc? If not, I'll go ahead and start working on this in a few days (presuming I have enough time).--[[User:Jonpro|Jonpro]] 18:32, 16 March 2008 (CDT)
  
Traveling around, doing videos about basic or not so basic life situations sounds like a blast!!
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:Honestly, seeing all that, I vote for just adding LG15:, KM: and Portal: namespaces. Way easier to have separately searchable LG15 and KM namespaces than to always have to type out L - o - n - e - l - y - g - i - r - l - 1 - 5 in front of all important pages. You'd just have LG15:Videos, KM:Videos, and if any new series gets added, you can just add a TS: (Third Series) namespace, and happily add TS:Videos next to them. The Portal namespace could be co-used by Tier 5 UGC, so we'd have Portal:Lonelygirl15, Portal:KateModern, Portal:Redearth88, Portal:MaddisonAtkins and so on.
 +
:For categories, we should settle for LG15 ... and KM ..., 'cause some pages get automatically put in loads of categories, and an entire "Lonelygirl15" everytime would cause half a dozen of lines just for the categorization area.
 +
::~ [[User:Renegade|Renegade]] ([[User talk:Renegade|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Renegade|contribs]]) 00:05, 17 March 2008 (CDT)
  
Any hints of how to get started?
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:::We should keep in mind that LG15 is probably not the best abbreviation for ''lonelygirl15'', as it currently means the entire Breeniverse.  (Remember when Miles [[LGPedia:Lucy's Balcony/archive4|posted this]]?) If we end up choosing to not use the full spelling of each series in the new official naming convention, we should use "LG" and "KM" under the greater the "LG15." --[[User:Phoenician|Pheon]] 02:37, 17 March 2008 (CDT)
  
thanks! [[User:12.27.187.199|12.27.187.199]] 19:03, 5 April 2007 (CDT)
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::If we don't go with Ren's idea of namespaces, I need to emphasize the fact that most of these pages typically ended up just having "KM" tacked willy-nilly onto the front, so you get weird variations of capitalization. ([[Product placement]] makes sense, but why is it [[KM Product placement]], not "KM product placement"?) Ren's idea would eliminate my complaint, but we need to keep this in the back of our minds on any decision we make (I can't TELL you how much that product placement page's naming convention bothers me.)
 +
::Also, I think LG15 for the namespace is still the best thing to use. I know it technically encompasses both lonelygirl and KM, but we can't make a namespace lg15 because of the naming constraints, and most people are familiar with the acronym applying to lonelygirl. We can even put an explanation on the categorization pages, if you want.
 +
::I don't know if I like the idea of Portal areas for anything other than the official series, though... - [[User:Shiori|Shiori]] 06:49, 17 March 2008 (CDT)
  
== Tasks ==
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:::Figured I'd add that, for the ''categories'' names, I prefer having Lonelygirl15 and KateModern. I know it's silly, but I think a good percentage of the people would be confused by a usage of "KM", and having them actually spelled out makes figuring out categories easier. Maybe that's just me, though. - [[User:Shiori|Shiori]] 06:54, 17 March 2008 (CDT)
  
What do people think of having a page to list tasks that need to be done on the LGPedia? For example, right now there are lots of images in [[:Category:Images of fans and spinoffs]] that could be subcategorized to make them easier to find. While I could just do this myself, if I don't have the time (or don't want to spend the time), are there other people who are just looking for things to do? Sometimes I think it can be a little unclear what needs to be done on the LGPedia, so having a place that lists things might be helpful. People could add things they want done to the list (maybe these should be verified that they actually ''should'' be done) and then when the task is complete it can be removed from the list. Any thoughts?--[[User:Jonpro|Jonpro]] 21:41, 11 April 2007 (CDT)
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::::The namespace idea sounds good to me, and I think I prefer "LG" over "LG15" for the lonelygirl15 namespace. Miles did explicitly say that "LG15" meant the entire universe, although it is true that it's often used as an abbreviation for lonelygirl15 (and of course, that's where the abbreviation comes from). However, I think "LG" would be just as recognizable as an abbreviation for lonelygirl15 and wouldn't result in any confusion for people. For the categories, we might as well use the same abbreviations as we use for the portals. Really, KM (around here at least) is recognizable enough as meaning KateModern (I mean, if we're using it for the namespace, I would hope so).--[[User:Jonpro|Jonpro]] 00:38, 18 March 2008 (CDT)
 +
::::I just took care of (hopefully all of) the category naming convention issues, so the only thing that remains is the page naming issues. - [[User:Shiori|Shiori]] 13:15, 27 March 2008 (CDT)
  
:Hey look, we have a [[LGPedia:Community Portal|Community Portal]]. What do you know--I kind of forgot about that. It doesn't look like it's being used that much though, or at least it's not being updated very much. Hmmmm.--[[User:Jonpro|Jonpro]] 23:09, 12 April 2007 (CDT)
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:::::Okay, having thought about this, I think I'm leaning toward my original suggestion the most. The thing with namespaces is that not everything about the series would be included there, so it's inconsistent. I mean, we wouldn't move [[Charlie]] to '''KM:Charlie''' because that would make things even more difficult. And when you think about it, we're talking about a rather small number of pages here, so having "Lonelygirl15" or "KateModern" in front really wouldn't be that much of a hassle. (And if we wanted to, we could even create redirects for '''LG:Characters''' and the like for easy access.)--[[User:Jonpro|Jonpro]] 15:01, 1 April 2008 (CDT)
  
::Okay, I made [[LGPedia:Tasks]]. I guess we'll just see if this works or not. I'd love to hear others' thoughts on this.--[[User:Jonpro|Jonpro]] 23:37, 12 April 2007 (CDT)
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<center>[[LGPedia:Lucy's Balcony|<-- Back to Main Page]] | [[LGPedia:Lucy's Balcony/archive2|Next -->]]</center>
:::I like what you did with LGPedia tasks.  You're right, a lot of times there are editors at the LGPedia that aren't sure how to contribute.  They either don't do much, or they create other random (though perhaps less needed) work.  The Community Portal was supposed to help with that, but you're right, it's not used much.  Perhaps something that should be added to tasks or community portal is pages that need to be updated frequently, such as character pages.  I don't just means in terms of "last appearance" but as to the content of the article.  [[User:OwenIsCool|OwenIsCool]] 23:40, 12 April 2007 (CDT)
+
 
+
== Vloggers ==
+
 
+
I've been cleaning up wanted pages and noticed a lot of them are the bloggers Bree mentioned on her early videos.  Since they were influences on Bree and also used to gain popularity, I think they should have some sort of joint article.  I'd like to start it, but not sure if the already existing "[[Vlog]]" or perhaps a new "Vlogging influences of lonelygirl15" or some similar name would be a better place for it?
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+
{{User:Phuncknasty/sig}} 17:00, 28 February 2007 (CST)
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:Taken care of, more or less. I should have done that a long time ago. --[[User:Brucker|Brucker]] 17:51, 28 February 2007 (CST)
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+
::Well, first, I think it's a good idea for an article, Phuncknasty.  I could help out.  [[Thewinekone]] and [[paytotheorderofofof2]] had real articles attached, btw.  But, more importantly, I think we need to figure out what we're doing with tags.  A lot of the wanted pages are tags.  We don't really seem to have a clear policy on where tags should direct or even what videos should have tags.  Phuncknasty redirected [[Lonesome]] and [[October]] to [[LonesomeOctober]] but since they were tags on a Tachyon video, OIC suggested this might not be a good redirect.  But since we don't really have a clear policy, it's causing some confusion and ''lots'' of broken pages.--[[User:JayHenry|JayHenry]] 17:59, 28 February 2007 (CST)
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+
:::I agree that the tags are sometimes confusing.  Maybe we should ask Jonpro because it looks to me like he's the tag master.  He has "the vision."  I think I'll start work on a vloggers article at [[Vlogging influences of lonelygirl15]], and if you guys want to move it, that's totally fine with me.    And I also had another good (I think!) idea... how about a page on Jonas's movie references.  I saw the [[four-letter words]] page and I thought it'd be cool to have a similar list with short entries of all the times Jonas mentions a movie.  Who knows, maybe it adds up to something or maybe it will just be a fun list.  But for now, I'm going to start doing research for a vlogging article.
+
 
+
:::{{User:Phuncknasty/sig}} 10:05, 1 March 2007 (CST)
+
 
+
::::Thanks, [[User:Phuncknasty|Phuncknasty]]. I think the current policy for official LG15 videos is to put them in [[:Category:YouTube tags]] and redirect them there if it does not have a page or there is no more logical place to redirect. I was thinking that perhaps instead of this each YouTube tag page could contain a list of which videos have that tag. Doing this manually would be a pain, though, and it would have to be updated for each new video. If there was a way to do it with a template or something that would be ideal. If not, I think the current set-up is fine as well.
+
 
+
::::For other (non-canon) videos, I see no reason for a category containing their tags, but I see the problem with the broken links. I think the obvious way to fix this is to only have a tag link if a page of that name already exists. The video [[What's in the Box/Bree & Daniel Update - NBR 3]] is a good example, as it links to pages like [[Bree]] and [[danielbeast]] since they already exist, but not "charlie" and "horus" since they don't. If a useful redirect of page could be made of either one of those, then the tag would be changed to link there.
+
 
+
::::As far as where to redirect them, I think using disambiguation techniques is the best idea. If a word is clearly ambiguous, make a disambig page for it. Otherwise, simply add a disambig line at the top of the page to link to what the user might be looking for. If a template or something could be made to list the videos that contain a certain tag, then users "searching by tag" so to speak could look at that and find the video they're looking for. Sorry about the long post. Hope this helps.--[[User:Jonpro|Jonpro]] 10:27, 1 March 2007 (CST)
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+
As I hinted at above, I don't think the tags on unofficial videos deserve links in general. If there is a page that's pertinent to the tag, then sure, link there. Sometimes, it might not be a link to what the tags says; for instance, the "house" tag on [[Where Is Jonas? - NBR 6]] should probably be linked to [[Jonas's house]] if linked at all, instead of to [[house]], where it currently links. On the other hand, the "squrrel" link probably ought to be dropped. That's my view on the matter of fan video tag linking. <span style="color:Blue">'''''-BRUCKER [[Image:EyeBlueSmall.jpg]] ([[User:Brucker|Home]]/[[User talk:Brucker|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Brucker|Contribs]])'''''</span> 17:04, 1 March 2007 (CST)
+
 
+
:I agree with Brucker on "un-linking" those fanvid tags that don't pertain to any particular article.  [[User:OwenIsCool|OwenIsCool]] 19:53, 8 March 2007 (CST)
+
 
+
 
+
 
+
==Excluding YouTube tags from Random pages ==
+
Is it posible to Exclude YouTube tags from the Random pages link,i noticed that half the time when i click on random pages i get a Youtube tag.  I think it would be more interesting if it only took you to real articles. -[[User:Misty|misty]] 19:31, 23 April 2007 (CDT)
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+
:Oh oh I'm with you there!  If it's possible, my vote on this would be YES!  --[[User:Zoey|Zoey]] 20:23, 23 April 2007 (CDT)
+
 
+
::Unfortunately I don't think there's any way to do this. --[[User:JayHenry|JayHenry]] 15:59, 27 April 2007 (CDT)
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::: How about if we get rid of all the YouTube tag pages or combine them into one page -[[User:Misty|misty]] 16:04, 27 April 2007 (CDT)
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+
::::I've been thinking about this recently and it does seem kind of silly to have a bunch of pages whose only content is the "tag" box. One possible solution is to make the "tag" pages with an associated page redirect pages, but instead of replacing <nowiki>{{tag|page=PAGENAME}}</nowiki> with <nowiki>#REDIRECT PAGENAME</nowiki>, we could incorporate the redirect in the {{tl|tag}} template. This way, the box would still be on the pages, but you would only see it if you click on the "(Redirected from PAGENAME)" link after being redirected. That would save everyone from having to click on the associated page link, and I think it would keep [[:Category:YouTube tags]] working fine. I'm not sure if it would fix the "Random Page" problem, but it might. Hopefully this makes sense. Any thoughts?--[[User:Jonpro|Jonpro]] 19:22, 28 April 2007 (CDT)
+
 
+
:::::Okay, I'm going to go ahead and try this out. We'll see if it works.--[[User:Jonpro|Jonpro]] 15:07, 29 April 2007 (CDT)
+
 
+
::::::Well, it didn't work so I changed it back to how it was. Does anyone know if what I'm trying to do is possible?--[[User:Jonpro|Jonpro]] 16:10, 29 April 2007 (CDT)
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::::::: Ok I found a couple things that can help http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Special_page and http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Custom_namespaces.  What you need to do, is put all the youtube tags in a custom namespace -[[User:Misty|misty]] 20:11, 30 April 2007 (CDT)
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+
:::::::: That's way more trouble than it's worth.  We'd have to redirect every tag in every video with a piped link <nowiki>[[Tag:Purple|purple]]</nowiki>.  Plus adding a custom namespace isn't something that we can just snap our fingers and do.  We have to get FTP access from Miles and then reinstall the wiki.  Totally not worth it just so people don't have to hit the random page button twice. --[[User:JayHenry|JayHenry]] 23:03, 30 April 2007 (CDT)
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:::::::::Ok I think this will work without creating a new namespace.  I did a little experimenting, by clicking random page dozens of times. I noticed that anything in subpage doesn't come up (e.g. List_of_Lonelygirl15_videos/redesign).  So I think if we were to move all the tags to a subpage of YouTube_tags (e.g. people to YouTube_tags/people) , and modified the template to use the new location, then it would work. The bot could move all the pages, (but I think it can't leave a redirect in the old location for this to work). -[[User:Misty|misty]] 14:32, 1 May 2007 (CDT)
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:::::::::: Actually, the random page button will get subpages too.  Less than 1 percent of our pages are subs, so you'd expect to get one once out of every hundred random pages. --[[User:JayHenry|JayHenry]] 15:23, 1 May 2007 (CDT)
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::::::::::: Well something needs to be done, I've gotten 15 youtube tags in a row. Why do we have Youtube tags anyway? -[[User:Misty|misty]] 21:40, 1 May 2007 (CDT)
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+
At this point, I'm wondering if we should just do away with most of the YouTube tag stuff. I think that we might be able to apply our policy for fan videos to official videos. What I mean is that we could only make a tag a link if a page already exists. The way I see it, the point of a link is to find out more information about whatever you're clicking on. If I'm on the page for [[Quitting The Sauce]] and I click on <nowiki>[[sleep]]</nowiki>, it will take me to a page that is esentially useless to me. I could click on "what links here" but even that doesn't seem very useful. Also, if it's a page like [[Bree]], it won't be easy to sort out the videos in that list anyway. We also run into problems like [[help]] which should redirect to [[Help:Contents]] but is also a tag. Then of course there's the "random page" problem that started this discussion. Anyway, enough with the problems. Here's what I'm proposing:
+
#Change most (if not all) of the tag pages with an "associated page" to redirect pages. (The bot can handle this rather easily.)
+
#Delete the tag pages that contain only <nowiki>{{tag}}</nowiki> and remove links to those pages on the video pages.
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#Keep [[:Category:YouTube tags]] (perhaps rename it), but have it include only tags that have pages, such as [[Bree]], [[Drunk]], etc.
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#Keep [[Template:tag]], but perhaps modify it to fit with the new structure.
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#Keep all of the [[:Category:Strange tags|strange tag]] pages that still seem worthy of a page, and delete or redirect the rest.
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+
With this system, if I'm on the page for [[Quitting The Sauce]], I'll notice that [[sleep]] is "grayed out", so I won't have to waste the time clicking on it hoping to find more information. If I click on [[alcohol]], however, I'll be taken straight to the [[drunk]] page where I can read about something alcohol related, which was the whole point I clicked on the link. As far as the amount of work involved to do all this, the hardest part would be #2, which will probably take a lot of time. I should be able to get the bot to help out somewhat, but I'm not sure how much. Anyway, what does everyone think of this idea? Is it worth it? Improvements and suggestions are also much appreciated.--[[User:Jonpro|Jonpro]] 14:27, 3 May 2007 (CDT)
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:I like this new approach very much, Jonpro.  We started keeping a record of YouTube tags in the earlier days when it was thought that there would be special significance behind them, but over time it became clear that it was kind of a waste of time.  Most things that need to be linked to will be mentioned in the notes anyway.  If a certain tag is so irrelevant that it doesn't even have a related page, we shouldn't bother giving it a link.  I almost want to just completely do away with tags, but that would be too extreme and I like your approach better.  [[User:OwenIsCool|OwenIsCool]] 15:01, 3 May 2007 (CDT)
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:: I don' think it's too extreme, but I also like the new approach -[[User:Misty|misty]] 19:19, 3 May 2007 (CDT)
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: Okay, perhaps it is just me, but I happen to really ''like'' being able to see which videos have used which tags, and etc.  I do get that the tag pages are causing a lot of problems though, and I agree that it wouldn't be horrible if they were gone :P  Can people other than admins delete pages?  As always, I'm happy to help out in any way I can, so let me know if you need deleting help (as you said this would be the most troublesome part).  --[[User:Zoey|Zoey]] 23:22, 3 May 2007 (CDT)
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:: Actually it wouldn't be too difficult to delete the pages, if the bot can scan the pages for the <nowiki>{{delete|youtube tag}}</nowiki> and delete the pages it's found on. Then the rest of us can just put the delete template on the tag pages without needing Admin privileges. -[[User:Misty|misty]] 00:55, 4 May 2007 (CDT)
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:::[[User:Zoey|Zoey]], sorry but only admins can delete pages. And yes, the bot does have a "delete" script which would actually use my account to delete the pages. The simplest way it works is just by deleting all the pages in a category. And I'm thinking now that [[Template:tag]] doesn't seem very useful anyway, so maybe that can go too. The one thing the bot won't be able to do is tell the difference between a page that contains ''only'' <nowiki>{{tag}}</nowiki> on it and a page which has other content too. So, here's a sequence of steps that I think should work:
+
:::#Have the bot change all the pages with <nowiki>{{tag|page=PAGENAME}}</nowiki> to <nowiki>#REDIRECT [[PAGENAME]]</nowiki>.
+
:::#Remove all instances of <nowiki>{{tag}}</nowiki> from pages that have other content as well (e.g. [[Bree]], [[Daniel]], [[Lonelygirl15]]). This would include [[:Category:Strange tags|strange tag]] pages.
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:::#At this point only pages that have only <nowiki>{{tag}}</nowiki> on them will be left in [[:Category:YouTube tags]]. So, I can run the "delete" script on pages in that category.
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:::Steps 1 and 2 can really be done simultaneously, but step 3 can't be done until steps 1 and 2 are complete. Sound like a plan? I can run the script to do the redirects tonight if this sounds good.--[[User:Jonpro|Jonpro]] 15:33, 4 May 2007 (CDT)
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:::: Sounds good to me -[[User:Misty|misty]] 23:03, 4 May 2007 (CDT)
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:::::Okay, I'll go ahead and start changing the ones that need to be into redirects and removing <nowiki>{{tag}}</nowiki> from pages with other content.--[[User:Jonpro|Jonpro]] 13:31, 5 May 2007 (CDT)
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::::::The redirects have been created and content pages have had <nowiki>{{tag}}</nowiki> removed. Next, if everything thinks it's a good idea, I'll change everything so it uses {{tl|tags}} then delete all the other tag pages.--[[User:Jonpro|Jonpro]] 15:56, 5 May 2007 (CDT)
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:::::: is this a bot task or a manual task? if it needs to be  done by hand, I'll work forward on the official List of Videos, someone else can start with the fanfic videos -[[User:Misty|misty]] 16:25, 5 May 2007 (CDT)
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:::::::It's a bot task actually. I just wanted to make sure it sounded like a good idea. I guess I'll go ahead and run the bot script.--[[User:Jonpro|Jonpro]] 16:39, 5 May 2007 (CDT)
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:::::::: Thank you Jonpro, you did a great job. Everything seems to be working great. Maybe we can archive this topic.-[[User:Misty|misty]] 00:10, 6 May 2007 (CDT)
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:::::::::One more thing before archiving. I managed to convert most of the video pages to using {{tl|tags}} with the bot, but I ran into a few problems so I couldn't get them all. If anyone sees any pages where it's not being used, it shouldn't be too much work to convert it. Other than that, I think this is pretty much resolved.--[[User:Jonpro|Jonpro]] 11:43, 6 May 2007 (CDT)
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Okey, I manually went through all the [[:Category:Videos]] and added the tag template where it was missing and fixed up the pages it was messed up on.  I could have missed a few, but I'm pretty sure I got them all.  I even did the [[LordGreystoke422|LG422]] videos even though I still don't think they should be transcribed at all.. xP.  So um, yes.  Hopefully this works out better!  --[[User:Zoey|Zoey]] 15:23, 6 May 2007 (CDT)
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:I double checked your work, and if you missed any, then I missed the same ones. -[[User:Misty|misty]] 18:40, 6 May 2007 (CDT)
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+
==Bottom indexes==
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We all like bottom indexes, right?  At [[template talk:Bree's religion]] we have a prototype sitting around for the religion pages.  My only concern with the Bree's religion index is that I don't understand what "related videos" means.  Do we want to implement a bottom index for other types of pages as well? --[[User:JayHenry|JayHenry]] 23:01, 26 February 2007 (CST)
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:I &hearts; bottom indexes.  Last time I tampered with the one for Bree's religion, I took out the "Related videos" thing altogether.  I think we should leave it that way unless someone proposes a good way of determining what a "Related video" is and how that would be useful. [[User:OwenIsCool|OwenIsCool]] 00:02, 27 February 2007 (CST)
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::In addition to a "thumbs up" on the bottom indexes, I'd like to say that while I think naming related videos is a good idea, it probably should be done in the body of the page. Rather than vaguely saying "Video X had some info on subject Y," which is what the "related video" concept meant to me, the article should outright say, "In video X, Bree said that her parents were always talking about subject Y." --[[User:Brucker|Brucker]] 10:00, 27 February 2007 (CST)
+
:::Agreed.  If it's related, then the article should mention it.  I can see how we could use it with location pages -- you wouldn't call it related, but you would say the location appears in: [[Motel Pool]], [[Breakfast In Bed]], etc. Let's go ahead and implement the religion bottom index. --[[User:JayHenry|JayHenry]] 11:19, 27 February 2007 (CST)
+
::::hehe, thanks for adding the semicolon to my &hearts; and nice work putting the template back on the religion-related pages.  [[User:OwenIsCool|OwenIsCool]] 15:10, 27 February 2007 (CST)
+
In thinking about a bottom index for locations I tried to create a [[Template_talk:Locations#Some thoughts on locations|list of all the locations.]]  Does anyone have input on the two proposed lists? --[[User:JayHenry|JayHenry]] 11:37, 2 March 2007 (CST)
+
 
+
== Puzzles ==
+
 
+
I'd like to always include puzzles in the "Recent Developments" column.  Good idea? It could be a way to increase visibility like OIC was talking about at [[Talk:Miss Me? puzzle]]. --[[User:JayHenry|JayHenry]] 23:11, 26 February 2007 (CST)
+
:Good idea!  I second.  [[User:OwenIsCool|OwenIsCool]] 00:02, 27 February 2007 (CST)
+
 
+
i third, i know im not a admin, but i contrbute as much as i can. --[[User:Iris2009|TJ Marsh]] 01:22, 27 February 2007 (CST)
+
 
+
::I like the idea, but just a thought: If a new puzzle comes up within the context of the latest video, the puzzle should be listed below the latest video just so the video is at the top of the list. For instance, the latest puzzle is fine, but it we had listed the "semiotics" puzzle, it should have been below [[Jonas Sucks]]. Just my opinion. --[[User:Brucker|Brucker]] 10:03, 27 February 2007 (CST)
+
 
+
:::OIC also suggested somewhere that we could use [[Template:Init]] with puzzles and possibly all events.  I'm wondering though -- puzzles don't lend themselves well to dates; they're not really events.  Should we create a separate main page template for puzzles?--[[User:JayHenry|JayHenry]] 00:16, 28 February 2007 (CST)
+
 
+
::::We'd probably be ok just using the date that the puzzle was "posted" (via video, message, wherever it started).  And even though the template is called "event", it looked fine when it was used for the puzzle.  Maybe we could just add the Init and perhaps link to the forum thread, and keep them optional?  If that's complicating things too much, we could just make a separate template.  It shouldn't be too difficult since they're similar.  I just care about adding Init, and perhaps the forum thread; it doesn't matter so much to me how we get there.  [[User:OwenIsCool|OwenIsCool]] 19:51, 8 March 2007 (CST)
+
 
+
 
+
 
+
== Recent vandalism ==
+
 
+
I've noticed that there have been a number of vandalism edits from various IP addresses that simply remove a large portion of content from a page. Here are some examples: [http://www.lonelygirl15.com/lgpedia/index.php?title=Main_Page/redesign&diff=prev&oldid=34890 1] [http://www.lonelygirl15.com/lgpedia/index.php?title=Talk:Gemma&diff=prev&oldid=34276 2] [http://www.lonelygirl15.com/lgpedia/index.php?title=Talk:Aleister_Crowley&diff=prev&oldid=34270 3] [http://www.lonelygirl15.com/lgpedia/index.php?title=Facility_J&diff=prev&oldid=34264 4] [http://www.lonelygirl15.com/lgpedia/index.php?title=Talk:Aleister_Crowley&diff=prev&oldid=34282 5] [http://www.lonelygirl15.com/lgpedia/index.php?title=Member_directory&diff=prev&oldid=34374 6]. Anyway, I think everyone gets the idea. Does anyone know what could be the cause of this? It's not like all the vandalism is coming from one IP address so we can't just block it.--[[User:Jonpro|Jonpro]] 00:04, 12 April 2007 (CDT)
+
:Well, really the only way to deal with vandalism is to revert it when it happens and to block offenders. However, I do notice a similarity between all these addresses.  They're all anonymous--a WhoIs lookup provides the country, but is unable to process any abuse reports.  These addresses are originating from Mexico and Asia, from ISP's that don't release user information.  This is just a shot in the dark, but it could all be the same person coming back through proxies.  If this is the case, they should get tired of the molasses-slow internet speed that they must be putting up with, and it will all stop when they do.  Then again, OIC is not psychic... this is for entertainment purposes only.  ;)  [[User:OwenIsCool|OwenIsCool]] 01:02, 12 April 2007 (CDT)
+
::Ok, well this latest streak was weird.  Several IPs and a couple of nonsense account names each blanked ''one'' page, but not completely.  I banned each for a month since they might not be connected, but I think they are.  Should we go back and ban them indefinitely?  I'm not sure what's up with the recent wave... might be a vandalbot.  I haven't had the change to look up the IPs.  [[User:OwenIsCool|OwenIsCool]] 08:32, 18 April 2007 (CDT)
+
 
+
==Spam wave==
+
Yikes, any thoughts on how to stop something like that from happening again? --[[User:JayHenry|JayHenry]] 11:06, 28 April 2007 (CDT)
+
:And here I was about to ask you that.  :-x
+
:[[User:OwenIsCool|OwenIsCool]] 11:15, 28 April 2007 (CDT)
+
::As far as I know there's not even a way to temporarily stop IP addresses from making edits. --[[User:JayHenry|JayHenry]] 11:18, 28 April 2007 (CDT)
+
::We could look into [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:FAQ#Where_do_I_get_the_spam_blacklist_from_and_how_do_I_install_it.3F this]. I think we'd need to get TWJaniak to come back and install it because we can't get into the MediaWiki configuration settings. --[[User:JayHenry|JayHenry]] 11:29, 28 April 2007 (CDT)
+
:::Hm, that might be helpful... so what that blacklist does is prevent edits containing those domains from being done?  I guess BK could install it, he's the new Buka, isn't he?  [[User:OwenIsCool|OwenIsCool]] 11:36, 28 April 2007 (CDT)
+
 
+
::::Sounds like a good idea to me. I've encountered this editing Wikipedia when I tried to add a link that was apparently on the blacklist. It just gives you a message saying that the link is on the blacklist and you'll have to remove it before saving.--[[User:Jonpro|Jonpro]] 11:41, 28 April 2007 (CDT)
+
:::::Blacklisting links will be halpful, but I don't expect that it will completly solve the problem,  my guess it that this was an attack from the fish taco guy, and he will just comeup with a new form of vandalism,  I think he's more focused on vandalizing , than getting clicks.    Also I checked the location of those IP Adresses using [http://www.geobytes.com/IpLocator.htm | Geobytes IP locator]  and they were comming from all over the world, so this guy has a major proxy network or know some other way to spoof IPs -[[User:Misty|misty]] 11:57, 28 April 2007 (CDT)
+
::::::I think you're grossly overestimating that guy, misty.  Using the web through proxies is ''really'' easy to do, he wouldn't have his own "proxy network" or anything like that.  This spam was definitely from someone else's spambot, but I guess it doesn't matter who it was anyway, just whether we can find an easy way to control it.  [[User:OwenIsCool|OwenIsCool]] 13:05, 28 April 2007 (CDT)
+
::::::: well if you think it was a bot, then maybe [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captcha CAPTCHA]  verification will help, I think wikipedia uses something like that.  And even though everyone disagrees, I still think logins should be required -[[User:Misty|misty]] 13:23, 28 April 2007 (CDT)
+
<br>
+
I moved yesterday's discussion into its own thread.  I think we had even more spam this last wave.  I was at the computer until very late (studying for finals) and I kept checking periodically.  I reverted one spam thingie, but went to sleep soon thereafter and then it started for real!  The same thing happened the night before!  grrrr!  Anyway, I think the blacklisting isn't going to work so well.  If you look at the links posted by the spammer, the domains are harmless!  There's Harvard (harvard.edu), Stanford (stanford.edu), John Hopkins (jhu.edu), U South Florida (usf.edu), Central Michigan U (cmich.edu), plus a few random domains, like forumhosting.org, jubiiblog.de, blogdiario.com, blogspot.com and more universities.  Interestingly, if you click them, you do get redirected to a Samsung ringtone page like the link label said, it just gets routed through the Harvard Computing Society's website or whatever the REAL link is.<br>
+
Instead of blacklisting, I think what Misty suggested (CAPTCHA) will be more effective for us.  That, or find another MediaWiki add-on that lets us limit the amount of external links posted in one edit.  I can handle the inconvenience of posting one at a time.  In the meantime, perhaps we should limit anonymous IPs from editing.  Less time wasted blocking them, more time to figure out what to do about it.  At this point, spammers make more edits than other well-meaning anonymous users.  I'm just suggesting it as a temporary thing while we figure out how to control this intelligently.  Whether it's simple to implement, I don't know.<br>
+
[[User:OwenIsCool|OwenIsCool]] 11:06, 29 April 2007 (CDT)
+
 
+
:Some (hopefully) helpful links.  [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Anti-spam_Features WikiMedia anti-spam features] covers CAPTCHA, blacklisting, proxy blocking, and lockdown (blocking anonymous users).  I think proxy blocking might be a good option.  [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:ConfirmEdit MediaWiki ConfirmEdit extension] (captcha), asks you to enter verification codes when inserting external links.  [[User:OwenIsCool|OwenIsCool]] 11:17, 29 April 2007 (CDT)
+
:'''PS''': I went through all the edits, Jonpro, and it looks like you got them all.  *whew* another morning at the wiki...
+
 
+
:: I can't figure out how to install these.  Can anyone make sense of these extensions? --[[User:JayHenry|JayHenry]] 11:55, 29 April 2007 (CDT)
+
 
+
:::Hmm, [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:ConfirmEdit Confirm Edit] seems like it would be a good idea to me. By default it uses Captcha on new accounts and external links and that won't be too big of a hassle. As for installing it, the instructions don't look too difficult, but I don't know much about that sort of thing so I'm kind of lost. I'm assuming we would need one of the site administrators or something to install it. The way I see it, the sooner we get this done the better. This spammer is getting really annoying.--[[User:Jonpro|Jonpro]] 12:15, 29 April 2007 (CDT)
+
 
+
:::: I'll PM Broken Kid and see if he has the access.  If we add captcha and the spam blacklist that should shut the spam down... if it's a human spammer we're just going to have to hope he gets bored. --[[User:JayHenry|JayHenry]] 12:27, 29 April 2007 (CDT)
+
 
+
:::::Well, I've read through the mediawiki manual and I understand how to install it.  It looks very simple.  And there's no reason we can't go through and block almost all those sites he lists.  On real wikipedia you wouldn't want to block links to Harvard.edu -- but there's no reason we need them here.  We just need someone with FTP access to the site.  Hopefully BK will get back to me soon and we'll be able to get it up later tonight. --[[User:JayHenry|JayHenry]] 18:50, 29 April 2007 (CDT)
+
 
+
:::::: Mmmkay well... I still haven't heard from BK.  I hate to leave things like this overnight, but I don't know what else to do... I'll e-mail Miles tomorrow if I haven't yet heard from BK. --[[User:JayHenry|JayHenry]] 23:10, 29 April 2007 (CDT)
+
 
+
::::::: How about that temporary (overnight) lockdown?  I think all you need to do is use the User Rights permission stuff.  I don't have access to that though, so I don't know how it works.  Maybe it's not as easy as I think it is.  [[User:OwenIsCool|OwenIsCool]] 23:21, 29 April 2007 (CDT)
+
 
+
:::::::: We can't do the temporary lockdown either.  It's an installation setting.  The only thing I can do with regards to user rights is make people admins or bots.  We could make the LGBot an admin and then have it go through and protect ''everything'' (or at least, I assume the pythonwikipediabots can do that).  But, the spammer has the ability to create new pages, so it's not a very useful fix.  We can't protect every ''possible'' page. --[[User:JayHenry|JayHenry]] 00:25, 30 April 2007 (CDT)
+
:::::::::ah ok.  we'll just have to hold out until someone with installation privileges comes to the rescue.  we can wait, the spam is controllable, it's just annoying as heck.  [[User:OwenIsCool|OwenIsCool]] 00:46, 30 April 2007 (CDT)
+
 
+
Le sigh.  Just when we thought the spamming was easing off...  Maybe it kicks in on the weekends when less people are editing.  I blocked a few spammers throughout the night, it looks like if you "nip it in the bud", it stops, waits, and then tries again like 30min. later.  Otherwise it just keeps going.  rawr, want lgpedia anti-spambot extensions.  [[User:OwenIsCool|OwenIsCool]] 17:05, 4 May 2007 (CDT)
+
:Actually, what you want is simple FTP access. If ''anybody'' had just added "ringtones" to [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Anti-spam_features#.24wgSpamRegex $wgSpamRegex] right after the first bot attacked, all the others would have been unable to post - the entire wave would have bounced right off the editing page.
+
:Sure, it'd still have stressed the server, but at least we wouldn't have had to clean up afterwards...
+
:~ [[User:Renegade|Renegade]] ([[User talk:Renegade|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Renegade|contribs]]) 18:01, 4 May 2007 (CDT)
+
 
+
== Performance issues ==
+
I've noticed that the use of alot of templates or included page, can have a big effect on the loading of pages.  This can really be seen on list of videos page.  does anyone know something that can be be done to improve the performance. -[[User:Misty|misty]] 15:31, 12 April 2007 (CDT)
+
 
+
:Well, I don't think it's templates or transclusion that's causing the problems on [[List of Lonelygirl15 videos]].  No matter how it's organized, with templates or not, the page is simply enormous -- more than 7 times bigger than the Main Page.  Other than dumping the videxpand template or really reducing the number of images (or shrinking the size of the actual image files?) there's little we can do. --[[User:JayHenry|JayHenry]] 10:31, 13 April 2007 (CDT)
+
 
+
 
+
==Fate  of AphidPedia?==
+
Now that OpAphid is no longer, official.  should there still be an AphidPedia section or should it be downgraded to Catagory:OpAphid  and removed from the left menu?  -[[User:Misty|misty]] 02:32, 14 April 2007 (CDT)
+
 
+
:We can still keep the OpAphid page, I'm sure. We have pages for other non-canon/non-official ARGs. I don't really know the structure of all the OpAphid pages, but we ''might'' want to remove the link from the left menu. I'm not really sure on that. The pages definitely need to be updated to indicate that OpAphid is no longer the official ARG if that hasn't been done yet.--[[User:Jonpro|Jonpro]] 21:43, 15 April 2007 (CDT)
+
 
+
: Oh, I missed this conversation.  I just came here to ask the same question.  I don't think we should delete OpAphid from the Wiki, but we should be sure to note that it is no longer official.  And I think we should take it off the sidebar, although if anyone has a good reason it should stay I would listen. --[[User:JayHenry|JayHenry]] 11:25, 17 April 2007 (CDT) 11:15, 17 April 2007 (CDT)
+
:: I wasn't suggesting getting rid of OPAphid, I was just wondering if it was still apropriate to call it AphidPedia, or if that should just be merged into the OpAphid article and not be so prominent.  When it was the official ARG it made sense for it to have it's own main section, but now it's just another part of the of the extended Breniverse. -[[User:Misty|misty]] 10:31, 18 April 2007 (CDT)
+
 
+
:::I guess my vote would be to keep the AphidPedia -- it's still a good index for the material -- but move it off the sidebar and probably off the Main Page too. --[[User:JayHenry|JayHenry]] 14:19, 18 April 2007 (CDT)
+
 
+
::::I went ahead and removed it from the sidebar and the main page.  I didn't make any mention of the scandal, because I think it's best to just move on.  We ''really'' need some new stuff to add to the main page.  Maybe links to pages about all these new girls?? --[[User:JayHenry|JayHenry]] 10:55, 19 April 2007 (CDT)
+
 
+
 
+
 
+
== Distribution for LonelyGirl ==
+
 
+
I'm interested in talking with someone at LGPedia about additional distribution of Lonely Girl.  Can someone please advise me who to contact?  I can be reached at lannick@licensinganimal.com Thanks for your help.
+
 
+
:Here at the LGPedia we're all just volunteers.  We can't help you unfortunately.  You need to contact "The Creators" of the series.  You can send them a private message at [http://www.lg15.com/forum the forum].  Good luck! --[[User:JayHenry|JayHenry]] 15:17, 25 April 2007 (CDT)
+

Latest revision as of 19:14, 20 August 2009

This is the archive of discussions from Lucy's Balcony that are no longer active or have been resolved. To revive an old issue, please start a new thread at Lucy's Balcony.

Finally, for discussions deader than Bree's dad, please visit the older archives.

OpAphid mess

Silver recently tried to unify the OpAphid bloglines, and the situation currently is kind of a giant mess. We need a consent on how we're going to treat the series and all connected blogs.

  • Before, we had separate templates and "series" strands for Brother, Tachyon and OpAphid. The only thing crossing over was Miss Me?, which used Template:Blog rather than Template:Aphid. Apart from that, all bloggers were independent from each other, using their own templates.
  • Now, all pre-canon and parallel videos, including Brother's and Tachyon's, use Template:Aphid, up until Miss Me?, which uses Blog, and all following ones use the brand new Template:Redearth88.

I was tasked with deciding whether to revert this change or not. In theory, Silver's system does make more sense. We do not have separate bloglines for Daniel and Jonas either, and neither do we do that in series like Maddison Atkins. However, since this is a rather drastic departure from our previous (year-old) system, which, among other things, means that videos by OpAphid use three different templates by now, I'd like to hear everyone's opinion on this before I go through and revert dozens of videos, when it's actually a logical change.

On the other hand, it's rather unfortunate that Tachyon's vids have the look and feel of OpAphid now, so if we do keep it the way it is, we should go all the way and create a "neutral" theme for the Aphid template, just as we have for other series. (Not to mention that the transformation wasn't 100% pretty, and all videos would need a post-change checkup of the links and variable settings.)

In addition, I just heard that it's, for some reason necessary that the new vids use the RedEarth template, so changing the post-canon vids over is kind of out of question.

Even though I loathe the work, I, personally, vote for a cleaned-up unification, including a new template theme, simply because we're doing it everywhere else as well, and it actually makes sense to have Brother's and Tachyon's videos, which are more or less a back-and-forth in communication, lined up next to each other.

Still, the old system is over a year old, and it's a rather drastic change, so...what's your opinion?

~ Renegade (talk | contribs) 14:29, 5 November 2007 (CST)
It seems like nobody has replied to this for a while, so I thought I'd chime in with my thoughts. After thinking this through, I agree with the cleaned-up unification that Ren proposed.
Since it has been so long, if no one objects in the next day or so, I'd say you can go ahead and go for it :) --Zoey 00:03, 11 January 2008 (CST)
Okay, I changed the template and marked the other three for deletion, but it's been so long, I forgot what I wanted to clean up :/
I checked all pages, and the template was applied correctly, the numbers go through, they're linked correctly and all have bloggers. Lookin' good to me.
~ Renegade (talk | contribs) 23:55, 15 January 2008 (CST)

The new favicon

Who the fuck is responsible for the new favicon and how can I punish him?

~ Renegade (talk | contribs) 15:59, 16 November 2007 (CST)
  • sorry to be dense, renegade, but what's a favicon? --Milowent 16:05, 16 November 2007 (CST)
Favorites Icon - the ugly black thing in your browser's title bar/tab row, next to "LGPedia:Lucy's Balcony".
~ Renegade (talk | contribs) 21:11, 16 November 2007 (CST)
Ah, i see it now. Thanks. --Milowent 22:10, 16 November 2007 (CST)
It's Ugly....With a capital "U" ... I mean....What were they thinking?! Nasty :( --free2liv4evr 17 Nov 2007 00:08 (PST)
I completely agree. We need to start a protest or something.--Jonpro 14:28, 17 November 2007 (CST)

Image Redirecting

At first, I was willing to put up with it... but now, I am finding image redirecting OUT OF CONTROL. The idea is to use it on pages like Characters or something.. when someone could click the image, because they'd think it would take them to that character's page. We do NOT need to redirect every single image is uploaded.

Redirecting makes everything harder to keep track of... harder to see what images have been categorized and what haven't... harder to read any image descriptions or whatever, etc. Plus, plenty of times images are used in more than one place, and if they redirect to a certain page, it may not take you to the page you want to go to. And.. also, it's a lot harder when trying to snag an image for use on a page if you have to go to the page they redirect to, then unredirect yourself back to the image and snag the URL, and yeah... I could go oooon and onnnn.

Image redirection used to be the exception, not the rule. And ever since that has changed, it has been a nightmare for me. So please, can we please go back to making it the EXCEPTION again? Pretty please? --Zoey 01:36, 17 November 2007 (CST)

I've never really like the idea of image redirecting although I do see it's usefulness. You'd think there would be a way of having an image link to a certain page rather than the image page itself. I'm sure I'm not the first person to bring this up. Has anyone heard if this is possible, or if not, why this functionality hasn't been added?--Jonpro 14:28, 17 November 2007 (CST)
If there is a way to do it, I haven't yet figured it out. We do not, however, have the latest version of MediaWiki, so it's possible the functionality has been added, but that we do not have the ability to use it. I agree, there is a time and a place for image redirecting, but I really believe that redirecting every image that comes up on the pedia is WAY overkill and ultimately does more bad than good. --Zoey 17:55, 17 November 2007 (CST)

}:::There is no such feature in MediaWiki; there would be a more or less convenient way if this installation supported embedding of "external" images, but whoever made the config turned that of. Should we get FTP access to the installation, I could change that, and one could use the image path instead of a descriptive text in normal external link code. (At least theoretically. And practically, I'd probably write a template to do that.)

We do have Template:Imagelink, though, which superimposes a link area over an image.
@jonpro: I assume the reason for the lack of this feature is that the MediaWiki software is developed for Wikipedia, which primarily uses free licenses - these often include an attribution clause, and that attribution wouldn't happen if a click on the image didn't lead to the image page.
~ Renegade (talk | contribs) 18:24, 17 November 2007 (CST)
A good way to take care of the problem is to install the ImageMap Extension, assuming we can. All of the templates would need to be updated, but it would be probably be trivial to do so. - Shiori 10:19, 24 November 2007 (CST)
I don't know why I labeled that as a minor edit, but I thought I'd mention that that's the only way (other than the template Renegade mentioned) that I've found to do that without redirects. - Shiori 10:28, 24 November 2007 (CST)
I didn't mention the extension for a simple reason: Even if we could install it (which we can't until we get FTP access), the syntax is hardly something you'd want to impose on a casual user. Simply being able to use the address of an image as the link text would be a lot easier to comprehend. We're talking about
<imagemap>
Image:Foo.jpg|200px|picture of a foo
rect 0 0 199 199   [[Foo type A]]
desc bottom-left
</imagemap>
vs. [page address image address].
~ Renegade (talk | contribs) 15:28, 24 November 2007 (CST)
Would that really be that difficult to put into a template, though? For instance, for the character listing just plop this into the code in place of the current image call:
<imagemap>
Image:{{{image}}}|{{{imagewidth|{{ #expr: {{{width|240}}}/2 }}}}}px
rect 0 0 1000 1000   [[{{{charactername}}}]]
desc none
</imagemap>
It was just a suggestion, though. The other stuff would require template changes anyway. The image address being able to be used as the link description would be awesome, but it still doesn't exist... :/ - Shiori 18:19, 24 November 2007 (CST)
Hmm. Actually (again, if uploading an extension were possible), the ImageLink Extension is a lot better. - Shiori 18:29, 24 November 2007 (CST)
Also thought I'd add that we probably shouldn't use Template:Imagelink, as Wikipedia is phasing it out due to many problems it creates. - Shiori 18:44, 24 November 2007 (CST)

Jumper/watchyourjack/whatweird

I'm starting a discussion on what type of exposure the Jumper videos should get. Keep in mind that the watchyourjack videos have a separate storyline from lonelygirl15, but are considered canon. In My Opinion, The Jumper Series should be organized like Redearth88 (but using the lg15 person template and the lg15 and whatweird categories). What does everyone else think? --FH14 11:52, 24 January 2008 (EST)

I'm disagree, for a very simple reason: It won't be important. Forget the canon thing for a moment, and view this realistically: It's a commercial. Nothing more. Yes, it has been included in a few canon videos, but the truth is, the moment the advertising contract is over, we'll never hear from Jack again, the Creators won't including "jumping" of any kind, nor will whatweird ever play a role again. On my talk page, you brought Nikki B. as the closest example - but as you yourself noted, Jack is not LG-based. Nikki B. is an important, if minor, influence to the universe. Hell, she even saved the kids' asses in the last season finale. Whereas this advertising campaign has no influence on the plot whats-o-ever. Think about it:
  • Whatweird.com was mentioned a dozen times, yet it has never played a role in the plot
  • Jack has been mentioned and shown several times, yet has never played a role in the plot
If it was something or someone like Nikki B. or Spencer, that/who leaves a lasting impression on the plot or the community, I'd agree. But the important point is, Jack doesn't. Jack will vanish, and it'll be like he never existed. The sole purpose of his appearances is drawing hits to whatweird and the Jumper ARG. He has nothing to do with LG15. He is basically living Ice Breakers Sours Gum. Just like all product placements, he's somewhat noteworthy. But not noteworthy enough to create a whole array of pages for him.
Jack's story is totally and entirely irrelevant to LG15, and, as such, there is no reason we archive it at LGPedia. Now, one might argue that Redearth88's story, for example, is not relevant to the plot either, but a) such thoughts are exactly the reason we're currently doing the fanfic revamp (to determine what's notable enough to stay), and b) Redearth is at least lg- and community-based. Jack is neither. Jack has a totally independent universe that only crosses with "ours" because it needs exposure. Nothing more.
Give Jack one summary page where everything is explained, with a whatweird section, a jumping section, an episode list with links to youtube, and link to the Cs admitting it's advertisement. And then be done with it. We're LGPedia, not JumperPedia.
~ Renegade (talk | contribs) 11:41, 24 January 2008 (CST)
I'm agreeing with Ren on this one. The current sections used for the Jumper stuff seem more than sufficient. - Shiori 07:48, 29 January 2008 (CST)
I just thought I'd add that I don't even think the Jumper page is necessary; it just seems superfluous. - Shiori 09:11, 30 January 2008 (CST)
Renegade said: "He is basically living Ice Breakers Sours Gum." Haha. It does feel a bit weird to work too much on fan-run pages for advertising, now that the mystery behind jack's connection to lg15 is over.--Milowent 16:12, 31 January 2008 (CST)
Okay guys, I think it's about time we reached a conclusion on this thing. I moved all the Jumper-related pages (unless I missed some) into Category:Jumper. Here's a rundown of each page:
  • Whatweird.com - I think this page should stay since the site was mentioned in several lg15/km videos and there is also an obvious connection to Jack.
  • Suzie - After scanning this page, it seems to contain a nice narrative of the goings-on at the whatweird site. There might be a better place to put this information, but I don't think that's too big of a concern.
  • Jumper ARG Characters - This page seems excessive to me. As has been stated, the purpose of LGPedia is not to chronicle the Jumper stuff to any large extent, so I think this page has to go.
  • Jumper - Okay, right now this page is modeled off of the other ARG pages (Redearth88, AphidPedia), but that doesn't really work for Jumper. Again, this has been stated, but Jumper is not based off of lg15 (like those two are) and therefore doesn't deserve the same kind of treatment. Also, information about the story is found on other pages. So we should be able to use this page to talk about the crossover between the Jumper story and lonelygirl15. So far this has taken place through Taylor, so information about those videos can be found on this page. Also, if not included elsewhere, other references to Jumper-related things can be here. Basically the point is that we're not chronicling Jumper like we are Redearth88 and OpAphid (or did, I should say) because they aren't the same type of thing.
  • Jack - This page seems pretty good as it is, although we may have to work on where we're going to keep all the aspects of the story somewhat.
Okay, that's what I came up with (with Zoey's help). Feel free to add your opinion about it but as this seems to be pretty close to the general consensus, we'll probably end up doing something like this. Thanks!--Jonpro 22:37, 1 February 2008 (CST)

I must preface this with an "I'm very tired so forgive me in advance if what I'm about to say doesn't make sense :P"

Anyways, I agree with the way Jon laid this out, but I wanted to kind of explain the reasoning behind it. There are three different aspects that make this whole crazyness up - lonelygirl15, the Jumper promo stuff (Jack, Suzie, Whatweird.com), and the lonelygirl15-Jumper integration.

So to look at these one at a time:

  • Lonelygirl15 - lonelygirl15 is its own show. It has nothing to do with any of the happenings in the Jumper movie or any of what's going on with Jack/Suzie/Whatweird.com. Any mention of it in the series itself should go on the integration page (see below).
  • The Jumper Promo Stuff (Jack, Suzie, Whatweird.com) - This is something that can be covered, but does NOT need to be covered in depth. The lonelygirl15 people are running a nice story over there, totally seperate from lg15.. .just related to the Jumper stuff. A FEW pages to track the happenings there are fine, which is what we have in pages for Jack, Suzie, and Whatweird.com. We do not need to get too much into it, though, as it is not relevant to anything beyond the promo.
  • The Integration - Like Jon said, the page that covers the integration (which I actually think should be moved from "Jumper" to "Jumper Integration") should be used to talk about the crossover between the watchyourjack and loneylgirl15 stories. It can mention Taylor and Jack.. and include links to other pages that might provide more information on both of their stories repsectively. It can also include the full list of videos in the Jack-Taylor crossover, if you'd like. There can also be a section where we keep track of when other characters (in either LG15 or KM) have made shoutouts to the whatweird site, etc. I think that would make it a really great page that would keep it much more in line with the kind of information LGPedia should be covering.

I think the treatment of these pages as Jon and I laid out will best keep with the needs and goals of LGPedia in covering this story. Hopefully this all makes sense.... please let me know if you're confused about any of it.. I'll try to check in on this page when I'm a little less tired :) --Zoey 00:49, 2 February 2008 (CST)

I think I understand what your saying Zoey (I had posted an earlier comment in this discussion on how I was a bit rash about proposing that Jumper be covered in so much depth, but it seems that the school computer I was using didn't process it). I think you're right. If everyone else agrees, I'll restructure the Jumper/Jumper Integration page in the way you and Jon proposed. (Also, I marked that massive Jumper character page for deletion, that was a mistake on my part. However, I re-created the pre-existing Paladin page I had dirived it from for organizational/informational/it's-info-that-is-difficult-to fully-integrate-in-any-other-article-in-a-way-that-makes-sense purposes.) --FH14 12:45, 02 February 2008 (EST)
I think the Paladin page should be integrated with the Jack page, or the crossover page. It'll never be more than just a stub anyway, so I see no reason for it to exist. - Shiori 13:22, 2 February 2008 (CST)
FH14, I think the fact that the paladin info doesn't fit any other page is exactly the point of this whole discussion - it doesn't fit anywhere because this is lgpedia, not jumperpedia.
I vote for integration rather than a standalone page as well.
~ Renegade (talk | contribs) 03:03, 3 February 2008 (CST)
I just redid the Jumper page, to be more of a "how the movie has integrated into the series" page. It's kind of crappy, though, so feel more than free to modify it. The paladin page is going to be merged with the Jack page, since it a) has nothing to do with Whatweird, which is being featured heavily on the redone page, and b) paladins aren't playing that big of a role. - Shiori 09:26, 5 February 2008 (CST)

Buckshot

OK, i created a page on Buckshot. What level of treatment should he get? Seriously though, if there are more behind the scenes vids coming out, we probably want to track them some way. Including the 2007 holiday video. --Milowent 12:34, 31 January 2008 (CST)

I'm going to take a stab in the dark and say that, assuming Zoey allows the page to stay, it should only be mentioned on the Yousef Abu-Taleb page. I already did that, though I don't know whether I should have put it in the Portrays part of the template... - Shiori 13:04, 31 January 2008 (CST)
well, who cares what zoey says!!! :-) but if the majority is against it, away it will go i guess. i do feel that we should see what other behind the scenes vids are released before Season 3 debuts, and then figure out a way to cover them all. The Buckshot page has already been viewed 200 times in a few hours, clearly its in demand! --Milowent 16:09, 31 January 2008 (CST)

Page/Category naming conventions

Maybe this isn't the best time to bring this up, but this has been bugging me a little bit for a while now. When KM joined our ranks here, we ended up with a variety of different variations for KM versions of pages. For example, we have:

Not to mention that some of these also have capitalization inconsistencies and deviations from convention. So my point of this is that I'd like to go through all of these pages and clean them up. First we have to decide what we want the conventions to be. Right now, we seem to have a bias toward LG15 simply because it came first. So there was no reason to name the Cameos page, for example, "Lonelygirl15 cameos". Now, since we cover both series, I think they should be treated equally. My proposal is to use prefixes of "Lonelygirl15" (not "LG15") for lonelygirl15 pages and "KateModern" (not "KM") for KateModern pages. The same would apply for categories. Capitalization should also be standardized: the first word must be capitalized, but all others should be lowercase unless they are normally capitalized in a sentence. Using the same examples as above, these would be the new names:

I think it's important to leave redirects in tact for these pages instead of deleting them, not only to keep links here working, but also links from external sites. So, what do people think of this proposal? Any suggestions, alterations, etc? If not, I'll go ahead and start working on this in a few days (presuming I have enough time).--Jonpro 18:32, 16 March 2008 (CDT)

Honestly, seeing all that, I vote for just adding LG15:, KM: and Portal: namespaces. Way easier to have separately searchable LG15 and KM namespaces than to always have to type out L - o - n - e - l - y - g - i - r - l - 1 - 5 in front of all important pages. You'd just have LG15:Videos, KM:Videos, and if any new series gets added, you can just add a TS: (Third Series) namespace, and happily add TS:Videos next to them. The Portal namespace could be co-used by Tier 5 UGC, so we'd have Portal:Lonelygirl15, Portal:KateModern, Portal:Redearth88, Portal:MaddisonAtkins and so on.
For categories, we should settle for LG15 ... and KM ..., 'cause some pages get automatically put in loads of categories, and an entire "Lonelygirl15" everytime would cause half a dozen of lines just for the categorization area.
~ Renegade (talk | contribs) 00:05, 17 March 2008 (CDT)
We should keep in mind that LG15 is probably not the best abbreviation for lonelygirl15, as it currently means the entire Breeniverse. (Remember when Miles posted this?) If we end up choosing to not use the full spelling of each series in the new official naming convention, we should use "LG" and "KM" under the greater the "LG15." --Pheon 02:37, 17 March 2008 (CDT)
If we don't go with Ren's idea of namespaces, I need to emphasize the fact that most of these pages typically ended up just having "KM" tacked willy-nilly onto the front, so you get weird variations of capitalization. (Product placement makes sense, but why is it KM Product placement, not "KM product placement"?) Ren's idea would eliminate my complaint, but we need to keep this in the back of our minds on any decision we make (I can't TELL you how much that product placement page's naming convention bothers me.)
Also, I think LG15 for the namespace is still the best thing to use. I know it technically encompasses both lonelygirl and KM, but we can't make a namespace lg15 because of the naming constraints, and most people are familiar with the acronym applying to lonelygirl. We can even put an explanation on the categorization pages, if you want.
I don't know if I like the idea of Portal areas for anything other than the official series, though... - Shiori 06:49, 17 March 2008 (CDT)
Figured I'd add that, for the categories names, I prefer having Lonelygirl15 and KateModern. I know it's silly, but I think a good percentage of the people would be confused by a usage of "KM", and having them actually spelled out makes figuring out categories easier. Maybe that's just me, though. - Shiori 06:54, 17 March 2008 (CDT)
The namespace idea sounds good to me, and I think I prefer "LG" over "LG15" for the lonelygirl15 namespace. Miles did explicitly say that "LG15" meant the entire universe, although it is true that it's often used as an abbreviation for lonelygirl15 (and of course, that's where the abbreviation comes from). However, I think "LG" would be just as recognizable as an abbreviation for lonelygirl15 and wouldn't result in any confusion for people. For the categories, we might as well use the same abbreviations as we use for the portals. Really, KM (around here at least) is recognizable enough as meaning KateModern (I mean, if we're using it for the namespace, I would hope so).--Jonpro 00:38, 18 March 2008 (CDT)
I just took care of (hopefully all of) the category naming convention issues, so the only thing that remains is the page naming issues. - Shiori 13:15, 27 March 2008 (CDT)
Okay, having thought about this, I think I'm leaning toward my original suggestion the most. The thing with namespaces is that not everything about the series would be included there, so it's inconsistent. I mean, we wouldn't move Charlie to KM:Charlie because that would make things even more difficult. And when you think about it, we're talking about a rather small number of pages here, so having "Lonelygirl15" or "KateModern" in front really wouldn't be that much of a hassle. (And if we wanted to, we could even create redirects for LG:Characters and the like for easy access.)--Jonpro 15:01, 1 April 2008 (CDT)
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