Talk:Kathulu Majik

I really don't see how this deserves a link. There is no such thing as Kathulu magick and it's certainly not related to Aleister Crowley. That newsgroup post you saw was a joke. If you read the newsgroup post, you will see the post is from a professor at Miskatonic University. Of course, there is no Miskatonic University...it existed only in H.P. Lovecraft's writings. Someone was just typing up something and trying to amuse. --Tannhaus 21:02, 30 November 2006 (CST)

By nominating Necronomicon H.P. Lovecraft and Kathulu Majik for deletion Tannhaus clearly has an agenda of stamping out all free debate that he does not agree with. I have attempted to accommodate every point he has made in accordance with standard wiki procedures however this one sided approach is difficult to deal with. I think a discussion of both fictional and nonfictional topics that bear some relevance to the LG15 story line is worth debating. Writers not only draw on nonfiction for inspiration but also fiction. The Creators have stated that Bree's religion draws on a number of influences. I have attempted to research and document these in good faith and I do not think it would be fair if these substantial contributions are just discarded without appropriate discussion and debate of their relevance to potential future story lines. It should be remembered that the Creators want us to express where we would like the story to go and it seems to be that research into what has gone before in terms of story lines is highly relevant.

I think a discussion of both fictional and nonfictional topics that bear some relevance to the LG15 story line is worth debating. Writers not only draw on nonfiction for inspiration but also fiction.

I agree. However, I nominated these because there is virtually no relevance to the storyline. I really don't see a point in searching high and low until a piece of fanfiction is found to tie together totally incongruous subjects. If anything, it just muddies the waters and you can't tell what is fact, what is fiction, and what is fanfiction. Instead of providing something that is a tool, this incohesive lumping together just makes it a chore to wade through to glean any real information. In essence, so much information not related to the storyline is doctored up to appear to be related that we lose any sense of relation and are playing ten degrees of separation with every random webpage we find, no matter how dubious.

You can accuse me of what you wish, but by flagging the articles all I did was assure that a maintainer would look this way and decide the relevance. I've noticed you have a penchant for comparing everyone that doesn't agree with you to prison guards, etc. so I guess I should be pleased that you only accuse me of being a facist in the making. That doesn't change the fact that I haven't done anything but nominated what appear to be totally irrelevant articles for deletion - a matter to be decided by a wiki maintainer. --Tannhaus 05:04, 1 December 2006 (CST)

I agree with Tannhaus. Modelmotion -- this is not modelmotionpedia -- this is LGpedia. It is a community effort. Yet whenever anyone wants to change anything you've edited, you go ballistic. You resort to all sorts of ad hominem attacks and basically just complain until you get your way. This is extremely inappropriate behavior for the LGpedia. Modelmotion, you have been asked to be kinder to fellow LGpedians, and yet you refuse and continue to hurl insults to people who suggest changes. Tannhaus has the right to nominate an article for deletion -- so do you or any other registered user of the LGpedia. When somebody thinks something should be deleted we should discuss it as a community. But instead of mature discussion, all we have is you leveling personal attacks at people. I'm really frustrated with your bullying behavior.--JayHenry 11:13, 1 December 2006 (CST)

'According to Wikipedia: "Cthulhu (other spellings: Kutulu, Cthulu, Kthulhut, Thu Thu, Tulu, and many others) is a fictional entity created by horror author H.P. Lovecraft." - i think this make it perfectly clear this is a work of fiction. Now what we need to establish is where or not it is infact related to Crowley or not.--modelmotion 19:03, 1 December 2006 (CST)

What i have been trying to get at here is the notion that Crowley used Magick to try and deterine his true will. In some cased that may have involved communicating with "other worlds" . A similar notion was used in Lovecrafts books.--modelmotion 19:07, 1 December 2006 (CST)

Crowley used magick in order to rise upon the planes, elevating himself to a point of enlightenment in the buddhist sense of the word. As far as the communication with other worlds, that could be open for debate. But, that is much like saying that Crowley drove a car by manipulating a steering wheel, so did Lovecraft, so they're somehow related. When you bring common magickal practices into the discussion, they do not start nor end with Crowley. They're much the same across lines. --Tannhaus 21:11, 1 December 2006 (CST)

What I would like to see is a good discussion of Majik both fact and fiction. Something that can bring this topic and its use by the occult within the grasp of the average lonelygirl fan. I think many believe that her ficticious ceremony somehow involves Majik and we are all strugling to understand what this concept is all about. Many of us have run into these concepts in other fictional works such as Buffy but have never drawn the connection to the real world so it was never a big deal. The fact that Crowley was a real person and hangs on Brees wall tends to mix up these two worlds more than we have experienced previously. It would be nice to see the LGpedia lay this out in a way thats both factual yet broad based enough to encompass both fictional and non fictional aspect of Majik. Can you help us do that?--modelmotion 01:45, 2 December 2006 (CST)

I think something like that would be beyond the scope of a lonelygirl15 based wiki, personally. In order to explain magick you would have to delve into a lot of areas that have nothing at all to do with lonelygirl15 at all. In the end, you would end up with a whole slew of information just to explain magick adequately...and it would surpass the amount of info for lonelygirl15.

Perhaps a single wikipedia page on magick with just SOME info might be ok. But, the subject is way too broad and encompassing to be able to fit it on this wiki without eclipsing the lg15 stuff. That's like taking a wikipedia and trying to explain a field of science. You either don't do an adequate job or you take the entire wiki over to do so. For instance, my copy of "The Golden Dawn" by Israel Regardie explains the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn's system of magick to some extent. It's a little over 800 pages long. That's just ONE system of magick.

But, as far as this article, Kathulu Majik was a single work of fan fiction by a single author posted on a newsgroup. It's not real and doesn't really deserve an article....and probably not even a mention. If we mention this, we end up having to devote a lot of mentions to every piece of lovecraft inspired fanfiction out there. --Tannhaus 12:08, 2 December 2006 (CST)

I support the deletion of this page. It has no connection to lonelygirl15, and only a vague and questionable connection to Aleister Crowley. At most, Kathulu Majik deserves a sentence or two in a different article.--JayHenry 12:05, 2 December 2006 (CST)

Time to delete?

It appears from the discussion about that this article was 1) inaccurate 2) based off something that was jokingly posted on an internet discussion board and 3) completely unrelated to lonelygirl15. I say it's time for this page to go.--JayHenry 14:01, 7 December 2006 (CST)

Agreed --Tannhaus 14:59, 7 December 2006 (CST)

For the sake of impressionable newbies everywhere, to prevent their confusion and misinformation... delete. OwenIsCool 15:51, 7 December 2006 (CST)

Agreed! -----Iris2009