http://lg15.com/lgpedia/index.php?title=User_talk:Abslch&feed=atom&action=historyUser talk:Abslch - Revision history2024-03-29T06:22:41ZRevision history for this page on the wikiMediaWiki 1.24.2http://lg15.com/lgpedia/index.php?title=User_talk:Abslch&diff=127281&oldid=prevMilowent: /* The end of all of this */ i've already said it all. there's nothing else to say.2008-05-20T03:29:04Z<p><span dir="auto"><span class="autocomment">The end of all of this: </span> i've already said it all. there's nothing else to say.</span></p>
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<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>::::::As for "just getting the ban over with" - that's easy for you to say. I will be branded as having already been banned before, and for what? For protesting that I was subject to threats and unproven allegations? For treating all community members equal? I offered multiple times to subject myself to a discussion about my "attitude problems" if the administration agreed to actually discussing the events of that day. What did I get for my offer? A ban.</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>::::::As for "just getting the ban over with" - that's easy for you to say. I will be branded as having already been banned before, and for what? For protesting that I was subject to threats and unproven allegations? For treating all community members equal? I offered multiple times to subject myself to a discussion about my "attitude problems" if the administration agreed to actually discussing the events of that day. What did I get for my offer? A ban.</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:::::::~ [[User:Renegade|Renegade]] ([[User talk:Renegade|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Renegade|contribs]]) 15:17, 19 May 2008 (CDT)</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:::::::~ [[User:Renegade|Renegade]] ([[User talk:Renegade|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Renegade|contribs]]) 15:17, 19 May 2008 (CDT)</div></td></tr>
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</table>Milowenthttp://lg15.com/lgpedia/index.php?title=User_talk:Abslch&diff=127207&oldid=prev71.6.151.10: Read the whole thing before you reply, milo. And fact-check what I say.2008-05-19T20:17:08Z<p>Read the whole thing before you reply, milo. And fact-check what I say.</p>
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<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:::::The whole brouhaha reminds me of this:  http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k225/milowent/renegade-new-portals-zoey.jpg</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:::::The whole brouhaha reminds me of this:  http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k225/milowent/renegade-new-portals-zoey.jpg</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Let's just get the ban over with and go back to the usual fun of the lgpedia.--[[User:Milowent|Milowent]] 10:50, 19 May 2008 (CDT)</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Let's just get the ban over with and go back to the usual fun of the lgpedia.--[[User:Milowent|Milowent]] 10:50, 19 May 2008 (CDT)</div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color:black; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color:black; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">:::::#The revert of a community-backed page version, the allegation of disrespect for an entire community, and the administrative threat of "consequences" are ''not'' a "little lgpedia spat". Whether the administration even cares for the will of the community is of grave difference for every editor, and I believe you, too, would like to know that there is an actual reason before the administration threatens you with "consequences". If Zoey randomly threatened to ban you today - would you ''not'' demand she actually proved you did something wrong? I don't want a fair trial about the revert, I want a fair trial about Zoey's unfounded allegation and her threats, and I want an explanation why everyone can challenge everyone's revert, accept for that one - I want an official, fair determination whether that revert was necessary or not, ''especially'' in the form it was done. If Zoey is playing her head admin bonus to push through her personal preferences, we ''do'' have a right to know that, and especially ''because'' you are a long-standing member of LGPedia, it should be in ''your'' interest, too, to know whether you're writing for Zoey, or for the community.</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color:black; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">:::::#It's very apparent you didn't follow the "original escalation", since you got a whole lot of stuff only half right:</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color:black; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">:::::::*It was not designed "mostly by me", I was just the executing arm. Things like turning it from a fixed-width to a variable width layout are not "kinks". In addition, you are trying to paint this as lacking community input - check the comments section on [[User talk:Renegade/Portal:Lonelygirl15]] - it's certainly not a ''fault'' of mine that most people just liked it and had no further suggestions. That does not change the fact that they had seen it, and that they approved of it.</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color:black; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">:::::::*I did not put ''something somewhere'', I [http://www.lg15.com/lgpedia/index.php?title=LGPedia:Participate&diff=prev&oldid=116635 added it to the participate box], where ''everything that needs broader attention'' is added, so it's not like it was some obscure page, it was the location where users have been ''trained'' to look for that kind of stuff. I ''then'' [http://www.lg15.com/lgpedia/index.php?title=Portal:Lonelygirl15&diff=119618&oldid=119583 added a notice directly on the portal], so everyone who visited the portal could see how it was being redesigned, and where to comment on the redesign. I then changed the advanced notice ''again'', giving a more definite [http://www.lg15.com/lgpedia/index.php?title=Portal:Lonelygirl15&oldid=122215 "Unless there are any last minute objections [...] Monday"]. And ''then'', I mention, on the talk page, that it was going live in 21 minutes or something. The latter was never meant as a broad announcement, and I will never claim that. But pretending that advanced notices in the most prominent places on the pedia, ''weeks'' before the change, amount to nothing is simply ridiculous. Check the dates. The redesign was on Participate for almost three weeks, and the notice was on the portal for almost two weeks. Do ''not'' believe the administration when they claim I tried to force this through quickly.</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color:black; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">:::::::*You are still assuming there even was an issue. I'll quote this next part from a post I wrote above: </ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color:black; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">::::::::{{quote|Renegade|The initial discussion did not even run 24 hours, then everybody had moved on to other things already. I posted updates on other stuff, and ''six days later'', on my own accord, without any further suggestion, I added more overlay stuff to appease Zoey. And what happened? ''Nothing''. For another 6 days, ''nobody cared''. Then, Nancy said she liked it, Zoey said she didn't like it, and FH14 suggested a different solution? ...and then? Right! ''Silence''. For another 10 days, until Zoey showed up and inquired if it was being worked on.<br>Do you see the pattern? The character icons are only an issue when Zoey is around. Every single time, as soon as Zoey left, the discussion died. Simply because ''nobody else cared.''}}</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color:black; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">::::::::This is not shit I'm making up. Go there, check the dates. The Character Icons were only an issue when Zoey ''made'' them an issue. Until she reverted and made clear she either gets her markers or the redesign doesn't go live, no one else cared for them. And even afterwards, check the new discussion: How many people do you see that agree they're necessary, and how many of them just work along to get the redesign live? And look, for example, at Shiori's very telling post </ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color:black; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">::::::::{{quote|Shiori|You know, Ren, [...] ... I agree with your stance, but like I said, since someone higher than all of us has already dictated something else is necessary, there's not much point to complaining about it. As for Zoey, she's basically relegated the whole redesign's moving forward to Jon and Pheon's opinions. So stop complaining about her and start catering to them. :P}}</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color:black; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">::::::::The problem is not that there was an issue and I ignored it. The problem is that there really was no issue for the community at large, and Zoey ''still'' reverted, and ''still'' forced everyone to work on it. There is an interesting tidbit I like to point out in this situation: Go to the discussion and find the post by User:Krisser. It's the same basic situation - one single user suggesting an optical change, and no one else agreeing or even discussing it. Did you see Krisser reverting the page and threatening "consequences" to me? Is his opinion less valid than anyone else's? The community at large did not reply to Krisser's suggestion, very most likely because no one agreed. I have shown you the discussion path above - whenever Zoey was gone, people stopped discussing the character icons issue. Now ask yourself: What's the difference between Krisser and Zoey? Why is, under the same preconditions, Krisser's suggestion being ignored, while Zoey's ended up in the final redesign?</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color:black; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">::::::::And hell, I'll go one step further - even ''if'' you agree weeks of advanced notice in the most prominent places of the pedia are not enough - Jonpro's "So, if there are no major objections, we will go ahead and make it live in about 24 hours." was buried with no special markup in a reply on the talk page. How is ''that'' enough obvious advanced notice?</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color:black; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">:::::::<span style="position: relative; top: 0px; left: -2em;">3.</span>You're also picking up the administration's "no consent" claim. Once more, check the discussion: [http://www.lg15.com/lgpedia/index.php?title=User_talk:Renegade/Portal:Lonelygirl15&oldid=122727 This] is the last revision before I went live. Apart from Zoey trying to enforce her own issue (do not miss her saying "as soon as we can fix this, I am totally on board with making this design live"), where do you see lack of consent? You might want to count the Video List issue, but for that you should be aware that the display differences described depend on the browser, the operating system, the default font, the resolution and several other ''user-specific'' settings. It is nothing we can "fix" just like that. And ''still'' I did not just brush it away, but I quite openly said that we could change it if it was still a problem later, and even suggested a solution. What's more important, though, is Zoey's line right below that - "We are going forward with this? I do not see any resolution on the character icon issue...?". Think about that for a moment. She reverted my going live with a cry about no consent. She posts right under someone else's issue. What does she complain about? Not the way I ended that thread. Not that I went live without waiting for a response. She laments that ''her own'' pet issue was not resolved. Don't believe me? Think she just forgot it? ''Check the discussion.'' The Video List issue ''never ever came up again''. Re-read that: The Video List issue ''never ever came up again''. The thread ''still'' ends with my reply. The only thing discussed after the revert was ''Zoey's issue''. Not Krisser's background suggestion. Not the Video List length. This leaves only two possible ways of interpretation:</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color:black; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">:::::::*"Consent" for Zoey, means "Zoey's consent". The implications for this are clear - the administration doesn't give a fuck for the community, which is something ''you, personally,'' as a pedia editor should be concerned about.</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color:black; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">:::::::*Zoey counted the Video List issue as resolved by my last statement, and didn't acknowledge Krisser because no one else cared for his suggestion. You already know where this is going - ''nobody else cared for Zoey's suggestion, either''.</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color:black; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">:::::::I could probably go on with this point, but you know what I'm saying, and I ''strongly'' urge you to check the discussion instead of just believing the administration's propaganda. The revert was ''never'' about finding community consent. It was purely about implementing Zoey's suggestion before we go live.</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color:black; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">:::::::As such, any claim that the revert was necessary on grounds of finding community consent, not disrespecting the community and whatnot are ''void''. If that was the administration's concern, why was the only thing the revert addressed Zoey's personal pet issue? </ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color:black; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">:::::::<span style="position: relative; top: 0px; left: -2em;">4.</span>I also resent the implication "Jon or Zoey should have banned you a long time ago for the escalation" - as I have shown above, pretty much everything the administration said or did in relation to this revert either directly contracticts the facts, or stands in conflict with their official reasoning. And still, they threatened "consequences" to ''me''. You cannot seriously be of the opinion that defending oneself against unfounded and unproven allegations should be a bannable offense. I have shown the way the administration works above, and I have shown that I did everything right. The only "mistake" I made was treating Zoey like every other member of the community in the discussion. You cannot ''seriously'' advocate that should be a bannable offense. Either Zoey had the same rights as everyone in the discussion, then I was right in disregarding her one-person-issue just as she and jon disregarded Krisser's one-person-issue, or Zoey's opinion is more important than ours, than the administration should come forward and admit that. '''Claiming I was disrespecting the community when I did the ''exact same thing'' as Zoey and Jon, ''without'' forcefully pushing my opinion through, is simply hypocritical.''' If what I did was wrong that day, Jon is guilty of the same crime. Do you see him banned?</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color:black; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">::::::As for "just getting the ban over with" - that's easy for you to say. I will be branded as having already been banned before, and for what? For protesting that I was subject to threats and unproven allegations? For treating all community members equal? I offered multiple times to subject myself to a discussion about my "attitude problems" if the administration agreed to actually discussing the events of that day. What did I get for my offer? A ban.</ins></div></td></tr>
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</table>71.6.151.10http://lg15.com/lgpedia/index.php?title=User_talk:Abslch&diff=127176&oldid=prevMilowent: /* The end of all of this */ Zoey didn't want a friendly backrub2008-05-19T15:50:33Z<p><span dir="auto"><span class="autocomment">The end of all of this: </span> Zoey didn't want a friendly backrub</span></p>
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<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:::Even ''if'' I have an attitude problem - it doesn't change that my request for actual proof before I'm being threatened is reasonable, and no ban in the world will change that you just publically denied me a fair trial.</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:::Even ''if'' I have an attitude problem - it doesn't change that my request for actual proof before I'm being threatened is reasonable, and no ban in the world will change that you just publically denied me a fair trial.</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>::::~ [[User:Renegade|Renegade]] ([[User talk:Renegade|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Renegade|contribs]]) 01:13, 19 May 2008 (CDT)</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>::::~ [[User:Renegade|Renegade]] ([[User talk:Renegade|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Renegade|contribs]]) 01:13, 19 May 2008 (CDT)</div></td></tr>
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<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color:black; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">:::::Renegade, can you imagine if we had "trials" over every little lgpedia spat?  And if we did, who would be the ultimate fact-finder and decisionmaker?  The admins, of course.  So the whole thing would be worthless.  You have no right, constitutional or otherwise, to a "fair trial" over a revert debate.  If people were really upset over zoey's actions, they would be saying something about it.  </ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color:black; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color:black; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">:::::After the original spat, I really didn't follow the escalating back and forth over whether it was right, or who was right.  As a fairly regular lgpedia user and editor, here is what i saw:  A new lg15 portal was being designed, mostly by you.  It was looking awesome, kinks were being worked out.  You put something near the top of the page (i can't recall where) saying the new portal was going to go live on X date.  Conspicuous as you thought that may have been (since it was your project), people didn't really notice it.  Then you posted something about how it was going to go live in 21 minutes (or whatever it was), since that was the deadline on this prior notice and no one was clamoring loudly about anything.  21 minutes later it went live.  Whoa.  Zoey realized (i assume) that the burden of going live at the appointed time vs. clearing up an issue she felt had not been resolved justified a revert.  The world didn't end.  You felt ticked that people didn't see your notices, and didn't respond in a timely fashion with their concerns.  I felt the revert was fine.  It was no big deal to revert and have a discussion over it.</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color:black; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">:::::This is the way the world works.  Perhaps you didn't need to get zoey and/or other admins to sign off on this change formally, but because of the importance of the page being changed, it may have been useful to do so.  Regardless of whether there is a rule one way or another.  Seeking consensus in such situations, and dampening one's anger when ticked off, is a key to smooth operating of wikis and, generally, large organizations ANYWHERE.  That's where you got crosswise with zoey, jon, et al.  Jon or Zoey should have banned you a long time ago for the escalation, but they hoped calmness would prevail over time. </ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color:black; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">:::::The whole brouhaha reminds me of this:  http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k225/milowent/renegade-new-portals-zoey.jpg</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color:black; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Let's just get the ban over with and go back to the usual fun of the lgpedia.--[[User:Milowent|Milowent]] 10:50, 19 May 2008 (CDT)</ins></div></td></tr>
</table>Milowenthttp://lg15.com/lgpedia/index.php?title=User_talk:Abslch&diff=127159&oldid=prev71.6.151.10: Bah, force of habit >_<2008-05-19T06:14:54Z<p>Bah, force of habit >_<</p>
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<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:::Even ''if'' I have an attitude problem - it doesn't change that my request for actual proof before I'm being threatened is reasonable, and no ban in the world will change that you just publically denied me a fair trial.</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:::Even ''if'' I have an attitude problem - it doesn't change that my request for actual proof before I'm being threatened is reasonable, and no ban in the world will change that you just publically denied me a fair trial.</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'>−</td><td style="color:black; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>::::[[User:<del class="diffchange diffchange-inline">71.6.151.10</del>|<del class="diffchange diffchange-inline">71.6.151.10</del>]] 01:13, 19 May 2008 (CDT)</div></td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color:black; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>::::<ins class="diffchange diffchange-inline">~ </ins>[[User:<ins class="diffchange diffchange-inline">Renegade</ins>|<ins class="diffchange diffchange-inline">Renegade</ins>]] <ins class="diffchange diffchange-inline">([[User talk:Renegade|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Renegade|contribs]]) </ins>01:13, 19 May 2008 (CDT)</div></td></tr>
</table>71.6.151.10http://lg15.com/lgpedia/index.php?title=User_talk:Abslch&diff=127158&oldid=prev71.6.151.10: I'd make more fish taco jokes, but I'm scared I'll actually meet westside somewhere here in pedia prison...2008-05-19T06:13:51Z<p>I'd make more fish taco jokes, but I'm scared I'll actually meet westside somewhere here in pedia prison...</p>
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<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>::On an entirely separate note, it is not acceptable in any way for you to edit from another IP address after I banned your main account. It defeats the entire purpose of a ban and is in direct violation of an administrative decision. I find it ironic that you accuse either Zoey or me of using a sockpuppet and then turn around and do that very thing yourself, only for a different purpose. (And if you don't agree, since we don't have an explicit policy on sockpuppetry, check out {{wikipedia|Wikipedia:Sock_puppetry#Circumventing_policy|Wikipedia's}}.) Also, your [http://www.lg15.com/lgpedia/index.php?title=Template:Blog&diff=prev&oldid=127017 other] [http://www.lg15.com/lgpedia/index.php?title=User_talk:Shiori&diff=prev&oldid=127019 edits] indicate that it was not just to post a reply to my block reason that you continued editing. I have blocked the IP address you used and you are not to edit the pedia from another IP address until the ban on your main account is expired. Let me make this absolutely clear: '''Do not edit the LGPedia in any way or form, using any username or IP address, until your ban has expired.''' If you do, I will have no choice but to enforce further consequences. If you would like to respond to my post or anything else, you can send me an email or simply wait for your ban to expire, but responding anywhere on the pedia is not acceptable.--[[User:Jonpro|Jonpro]] 21:46, 18 May 2008 (CDT)</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>::On an entirely separate note, it is not acceptable in any way for you to edit from another IP address after I banned your main account. It defeats the entire purpose of a ban and is in direct violation of an administrative decision. I find it ironic that you accuse either Zoey or me of using a sockpuppet and then turn around and do that very thing yourself, only for a different purpose. (And if you don't agree, since we don't have an explicit policy on sockpuppetry, check out {{wikipedia|Wikipedia:Sock_puppetry#Circumventing_policy|Wikipedia's}}.) Also, your [http://www.lg15.com/lgpedia/index.php?title=Template:Blog&diff=prev&oldid=127017 other] [http://www.lg15.com/lgpedia/index.php?title=User_talk:Shiori&diff=prev&oldid=127019 edits] indicate that it was not just to post a reply to my block reason that you continued editing. I have blocked the IP address you used and you are not to edit the pedia from another IP address until the ban on your main account is expired. Let me make this absolutely clear: '''Do not edit the LGPedia in any way or form, using any username or IP address, until your ban has expired.''' If you do, I will have no choice but to enforce further consequences. If you would like to respond to my post or anything else, you can send me an email or simply wait for your ban to expire, but responding anywhere on the pedia is not acceptable.--[[User:Jonpro|Jonpro]] 21:46, 18 May 2008 (CDT)</div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color:black; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color:black; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">:::#It's kind of ridiculous I actually have to point this out, but editing under my own name does ''not'' qualify as sockpuppet usage. Mainly because the whole, you know, sockpuppet aspect is missing. Look up [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sockpuppet_%28Internet%29 the definition of "sockpuppet"] sometime. Would prevent such embarrassments in the future.</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color:black; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">:::#Denying me a fair trial because of perceived attitute problems is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Imagine any democracy in the world did that - "nope, you don't get a trial, because you're an asshole." There would be an outcry. Whether there was community backing for the portal redesign, the revert was necessary or I followed the policies when moving the design over is entirely unrelated to whether or not ''you'' think I have an attitude problem. In addition, since Zoey claimed her revert was partially due to my attitude, denying me a fair trial ''because'' of that attitude is all the more ridiculous. It's like telling somebody "we're charging you with murder, but no, you can't defend yourself, because you're a murderer!". And you deny you're being dictatorial?<br>(That is all disregarding the fact that you still didn't even bother to try proving that anything I say is actually wrong and purely a personal attack - likely because you know full well it's not the case.)</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color:black; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">:::#I find it rather hilarious how you say my actions make the pedia look bad, when all of this is just a reaction to Zoey's unwillingness to talk about the revert, and your refusal to consider the situation fairly. Trying to blame Zoey's violent outbursts on an innocent user and then trying to cover it up (badly, I might add) makes the pedia look far worse than the fact that I oppose being the target of unproven allegations and suffering from Zoey's egocentrism. I would not have to sit here arguing with you if the administration had discussed the revert when I challenged it, and not just pretended that it was an unchangable given. Try to paint it however you like - the discussion is still there. People can look it up. All I did was oppose the revert and the way the administration tries to frame me as a scapegoat. There is ''nothing'' wrong with that. Even without the Disputing Edits Policy (which the administration ''conveniently'' didn't ratify, since it would have meant Zoey would actually have had to discuss the revert), it is ''not'' against policies to challenge a revert, and it is most certainly ''not'' against policies to defend oneself against unfounded, unproven allegations. The administration abuses its power and the lack of a defined process to force its will onto the community, and gets rid of any vocal dissent - ''that'' is making the pedia look bad, ''not'' the fact that I defend myself against your abuse.</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color:black; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color:black; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">:::I'm sure you'll use this edit as a convenient way to claim "I told him so!!" and suppress me further, but we both know you didn't actually think I'd let you publically spout these lies, and then reply in private so it looks like it was the truth. You ''counted'' on the fact that I'd reply, so you could extend the ban. You know that, and I know that. But it's more important to me to protect my good name than to silently obey your boot on my neck, just so you graciously allow me to return one day. So, do what you have to do. It doesn't change the situation one bit.</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color:black; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color:black; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">:::It has been almost one month since Zoey's unfounded allegations, and so far, no one proved anything of what she said was true. Yet, I'm the target of threats and suppression because of it. Do you ''actually'' wonder why I protest against that? Are you ''actually'' surprised I'm complaining about being threatened with "consequences" for ''nothing''?</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color:black; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color:black; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">:::All I wanted was a fair trial - one ''month'' ago. Instead, you chose to protect Zoey. That's fine - it's the loyal way, and I respect that decision. But as much as I respect and understand the way you're going, it doesn't change the fact that the administration is threatening and oppressing me for things I didn't do, and as long as the administration continues this way, I ''cannot'' stop defending myself.</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color:black; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color:black; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">:::Even ''if'' I have an attitude problem - it doesn't change that my request for actual proof before I'm being threatened is reasonable, and no ban in the world will change that you just publically denied me a fair trial.</ins></div></td></tr>
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</table>71.6.151.10http://lg15.com/lgpedia/index.php?title=User_talk:Abslch&diff=127063&oldid=prevJonpro: /* The end of all of this */2008-05-19T02:46:23Z<p><span dir="auto"><span class="autocomment">The end of all of this</span></span></p>
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<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:You still fail to show where I actually disrespected anyone, you still conveniently ignore my request for a fair trial above (including the displayed willingness to talk about my "attitude"), and you still fail to prove anything Zoey said was even remotely based in reality. Yet, I'm banned. And you wonder why I consider this system dictatorial?</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:You still fail to show where I actually disrespected anyone, you still conveniently ignore my request for a fair trial above (including the displayed willingness to talk about my "attitude"), and you still fail to prove anything Zoey said was even remotely based in reality. Yet, I'm banned. And you wonder why I consider this system dictatorial?</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>::~ [[User:Renegade|Renegade]] ([[User talk:Renegade|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Renegade|contribs]]) 19:33, 18 May 2008 (CDT)</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>::~ [[User:Renegade|Renegade]] ([[User talk:Renegade|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Renegade|contribs]]) 19:33, 18 May 2008 (CDT)</div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color:black; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color:black; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">::Just look at the discussion on this page (not to mention many other discussions you get involved in). It is clear that because of your disrespectful attitude (which I have tried to get you to recognize yet you still do not), such a "fair trial" cannot take place. If you would be willing to avoid personally attacking people in your posts, then you would get your "fair trial". But as things stand, every argument simply turns into a long, drawn-out affair that soon has little if anything to do with the actual issue. Do you think it's a coincidence that the discussions you're involved in turn into this? It makes the pedia look bad, like we're not capable of having civil, calm discussions, and it turns people away. Not to mention that it's also in violation of LGPedia policy. All I'm asking is that you change your attitude; that's all I've been asking all along, yet you refuse to. You were warned ''many'' times, yet you did not stop. I explicitly said that you would be banned if things didn't change, and they didn't, so I followed through. I am only doing what I feel is best for the pedia overall. Again, if that makes me a dictator in your eyes, then so be it.</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color:black; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color:black; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">::On an entirely separate note, it is not acceptable in any way for you to edit from another IP address after I banned your main account. It defeats the entire purpose of a ban and is in direct violation of an administrative decision. I find it ironic that you accuse either Zoey or me of using a sockpuppet and then turn around and do that very thing yourself, only for a different purpose. (And if you don't agree, since we don't have an explicit policy on sockpuppetry, check out {{wikipedia|Wikipedia:Sock_puppetry#Circumventing_policy|Wikipedia's}}.) Also, your [http://www.lg15.com/lgpedia/index.php?title=Template:Blog&diff=prev&oldid=127017 other] [http://www.lg15.com/lgpedia/index.php?title=User_talk:Shiori&diff=prev&oldid=127019 edits] indicate that it was not just to post a reply to my block reason that you continued editing. I have blocked the IP address you used and you are not to edit the pedia from another IP address until the ban on your main account is expired. Let me make this absolutely clear: '''Do not edit the LGPedia in any way or form, using any username or IP address, until your ban has expired.''' If you do, I will have no choice but to enforce further consequences. If you would like to respond to my post or anything else, you can send me an email or simply wait for your ban to expire, but responding anywhere on the pedia is not acceptable.--[[User:Jonpro|Jonpro]] 21:46, 18 May 2008 (CDT)</ins></div></td></tr>
</table>Jonprohttp://lg15.com/lgpedia/index.php?title=User_talk:Abslch&diff=127016&oldid=prev193.200.150.167: Does that mean I have to start eating fish tacos now?2008-05-18T17:34:46Z<p>Does that mean I have to start eating fish tacos now?</p>
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<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:Well, there is still no proof I did anything of what Zoey claimed, and you tellingly don't even reply to my request for a fair trial. So, yeah, "dictatorship" is pretty much the only word applying. Although you're more of a henchman, not the actual dictator.</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:Well, there is still no proof I did anything of what Zoey claimed, and you tellingly don't even reply to my request for a fair trial. So, yeah, "dictatorship" is pretty much the only word applying. Although you're more of a henchman, not the actual dictator.</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>::~ [[User:Renegade|Renegade]] ([[User talk:Renegade|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Renegade|contribs]]) 12:27, 17 May 2008 (CDT)</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>::~ [[User:Renegade|Renegade]] ([[User talk:Renegade|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Renegade|contribs]]) 12:27, 17 May 2008 (CDT)</div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color:black; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color:black; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">:{{quote|Jonpro|Continuing to personally attack other users and showing a general attitude of disrespect despite multiple warnings to stop.}}</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color:black; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">:You still fail to show where I actually disrespected anyone, you still conveniently ignore my request for a fair trial above (including the displayed willingness to talk about my "attitude"), and you still fail to prove anything Zoey said was even remotely based in reality. Yet, I'm banned. And you wonder why I consider this system dictatorial?</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color:black; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">::~ [[User:Renegade|Renegade]] ([[User talk:Renegade|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Renegade|contribs]]) 19:33, 18 May 2008 (CDT)</ins></div></td></tr>
</table>193.200.150.167http://lg15.com/lgpedia/index.php?title=User_talk:Abslch&diff=126841&oldid=prevRenegade: /* The end of all of this */2008-05-17T17:27:57Z<p><span dir="auto"><span class="autocomment">The end of all of this</span></span></p>
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<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Look, here's how things are going to be. Renegade, I have tried to reason with you and be calm and rational throughout all of this, but the time has come when enough is enough. Zoey is the head admin here, and if she thinks that something needs to be done for the sake of the wiki, then she has the right to do it. It doesn't matter if you agree or not; it's her decision to make. Your lack of respect for her and others has gone on long enough. So, despite how much I hate to say this, if the attitude you display in your posts does not change, you will be banned. If that makes me a dictator in your eyes, then so be it; I have bigger things to think about than what you think of me.--[[User:Jonpro|Jonpro]] 02:15, 17 May 2008 (CDT)</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Look, here's how things are going to be. Renegade, I have tried to reason with you and be calm and rational throughout all of this, but the time has come when enough is enough. Zoey is the head admin here, and if she thinks that something needs to be done for the sake of the wiki, then she has the right to do it. It doesn't matter if you agree or not; it's her decision to make. Your lack of respect for her and others has gone on long enough. So, despite how much I hate to say this, if the attitude you display in your posts does not change, you will be banned. If that makes me a dictator in your eyes, then so be it; I have bigger things to think about than what you think of me.--[[User:Jonpro|Jonpro]] 02:15, 17 May 2008 (CDT)</div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color:black; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color:black; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">:Well, there is still no proof I did anything of what Zoey claimed, and you tellingly don't even reply to my request for a fair trial. So, yeah, "dictatorship" is pretty much the only word applying. Although you're more of a henchman, not the actual dictator.</ins></div></td></tr>
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</table>Renegadehttp://lg15.com/lgpedia/index.php?title=User_talk:Abslch&diff=126814&oldid=prevJonpro: New section: The end of all of this2008-05-17T07:15:10Z<p>New section: <a href="/lgpedia/index.php?title=User_talk:Abslch#The_end_of_all_of_this" title="User talk:Abslch">The end of all of this</a></p>
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<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:::I am a little busy right now, so I haven't had time to think things through and respond in detail yet. I don't want this to be dragged on any more than you do, but it has only been a couple of days since your last post in the discussion. I promise I will address all of this as soon as I can.--[[User:Jonpro|Jonpro]] 12:15, 15 May 2008 (CDT)</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:::I am a little busy right now, so I haven't had time to think things through and respond in detail yet. I don't want this to be dragged on any more than you do, but it has only been a couple of days since your last post in the discussion. I promise I will address all of this as soon as I can.--[[User:Jonpro|Jonpro]] 12:15, 15 May 2008 (CDT)</div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color:black; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color:black; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">== The end of all of this ==</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color:black; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color:black; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Look, here's how things are going to be. Renegade, I have tried to reason with you and be calm and rational throughout all of this, but the time has come when enough is enough. Zoey is the head admin here, and if she thinks that something needs to be done for the sake of the wiki, then she has the right to do it. It doesn't matter if you agree or not; it's her decision to make. Your lack of respect for her and others has gone on long enough. So, despite how much I hate to say this, if the attitude you display in your posts does not change, you will be banned. If that makes me a dictator in your eyes, then so be it; I have bigger things to think about than what you think of me.--[[User:Jonpro|Jonpro]] 02:15, 17 May 2008 (CDT)</ins></div></td></tr>
</table>Jonprohttp://lg15.com/lgpedia/index.php?title=User_talk:Abslch&diff=126351&oldid=prevJonpro at 17:15, 15 May 20082008-05-15T17:15:36Z<p></p>
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<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>::We'll see how you react when you randomly get accused and threatened for no reason at all, milo. The fact that no one even responded to my request for a fair trial is quite telling.</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>::We'll see how you react when you randomly get accused and threatened for no reason at all, milo. The fact that no one even responded to my request for a fair trial is quite telling.</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:::~ [[User:Renegade|Renegade]] ([[User talk:Renegade|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Renegade|contribs]]) 11:48, 15 May 2008 (CDT)</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:::~ [[User:Renegade|Renegade]] ([[User talk:Renegade|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Renegade|contribs]]) 11:48, 15 May 2008 (CDT)</div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color:black; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color:black; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">:::I am a little busy right now, so I haven't had time to think things through and respond in detail yet. I don't want this to be dragged on any more than you do, but it has only been a couple of days since your last post in the discussion. I promise I will address all of this as soon as I can.--[[User:Jonpro|Jonpro]] 12:15, 15 May 2008 (CDT)</ins></div></td></tr>
</table>Jonpro