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Lonelygirl15 Forum to post messages about Bree and Danielbeast
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martha Enthusiastic Fan
Joined: 22 Sep 2006 Posts: 279 Location: Colorado
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Posted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 12:51 pm Post subject: |
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Killthesmiley wrote: |
and just a quick edit...
I find is absolutely disgustingthat we as fans are ever DISCUSSING THIS. To me this isn't being supportive at all.
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I agree. I am so sick of the negativity from certain people. If you don't like how it's turning out, stop watching. |
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lesbrent Casual Observer
Joined: 09 Sep 2006 Posts: 105
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Posted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 1:20 pm Post subject: |
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martha wrote: | Killthesmiley wrote: |
and just a quick edit...
I find is absolutely disgustingthat we as fans are ever DISCUSSING THIS. To me this isn't being supportive at all.
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I agree. I am so sick of the negativity from certain people. If you don't like how it's turning out, stop watching. |
Ya know I was just going to ignore this and I clicked off and went about my merry way. Then I thought of something and came back to the post.
Please take your own advice. If you don't like these posts, don't click on them. It's as easy as that!
If you don't like fans complaining about higher faucets of this art medium or the way things are being run, ignore those posts and carry on. Your scolding me isn't going to change my mind.
As far as being supportive, criticism is a healthy thing for any project. And I mean criticism beyond, "Bree don't go to Jonas' house" or "Your eyebrows are too big". You have to take the good with the bad. If Miles, Mesh and Greg, et al only wanted cheerleaders, I doubt they would have a section of their forum called "Concerns and Complaints".
I am very supportive of the LG project and everyone involved in it. This project has opened other new doors for me personally. I want them to succeed. They may not be the first to have done this, but their timing with YouTube was exactly right, the concept was right, and it was very innovative. I really admire that.
As another forerunner in this medium said recently, the LG team members heads are probably "exploding" and it's really an out of this world ego burst like none of us can imagine. Can you imagine one million people looking at something YOU have done? However, when the dust settles, the "creators" are people just like us and I don't think a reality check every once in a while is a bad thing. And neither is making money off of a creative effort. I agree with that too. |
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gogo Devoted Fan
Joined: 18 Sep 2006 Posts: 675 Location: New England
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Posted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 1:21 pm Post subject: tired of the whining |
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Martha
Your point is short and sweet and quite appropriate. I am trying hard to understand why the negative-nellies are so angry and seem to take so many things so personally. I've asked questions. Read their responses. Even tried to be supportive. But I just can't wrap my head around it. (Also I would rather not spent my time focusing on people who are so negative and bitter. I wears me down quickly.) I guess, Martha and KilltheSmiley, I think your points are quite clear. I would like to add to your suggestions:
If you don't like the way things are going and you're still going to watch. Be considerate in your complaining.
Please realize that this is forum of fans. Sure, we'll complain if Bree doesn't do something we want her to do or something beign like that. However, most folks on this forum are fans and supporters. The team behind lg15 are called the creators because it's easier to write than listing all of their names. I support people's right to say what they'd like and complain about whatever they want to. However, sometimes the very personal attacks and accusations against the production team is pretty tiresome.
I hope we don't continue with the current trend of certain folks who seem to post on here as if their comments are going to "take down" this production. This is entertainment. Not a crooked government scheme or something.
I originally responded to the first post on this thread because I really wanted to understand why some rather vocal and oppositional folks are so upset by the production team. However, I realized that I don't really care to know. I don't feel scammed or traumatized or bothered by this series. I will not be responding to these kinds of posts anymore because it really wastes my time focusing on negativity. Sorry this is so long. (which is clearly another reason why I shouldn't respond to these kinds of threads. )
lesbrent- I will not click on these posts anymore. It's a good suggestion. I hope the complaints and concerns remain in the complaints and concerns part of the forum. |
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martha Enthusiastic Fan
Joined: 22 Sep 2006 Posts: 279 Location: Colorado
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Posted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 1:48 pm Post subject: |
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lesbrent wrote: | martha wrote: | Killthesmiley wrote: |
and just a quick edit...
I find is absolutely disgustingthat we as fans are ever DISCUSSING THIS. To me this isn't being supportive at all.
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I agree. I am so sick of the negativity from certain people. If you don't like how it's turning out, stop watching. |
Ya know I was just going to ignore this and I clicked off and went about my merry way. Then I thought of something and came back to the post.
Please take your own advice. If you don't like these posts, don't click on them. It's as easy as that!
If you don't like fans complaining about higher faucets of this art medium or the way things are being run, ignore those posts and carry on. Your scolding me isn't going to change my mind.
As far as being supportive, criticism is a healthy thing for any project. And I mean criticism beyond, "Bree don't go to Jonas' house" or "Your eyebrows are too big". You have to take the good with the bad. If Miles, Mesh and Greg, et al only wanted cheerleaders, I doubt they would have a section of their forum called "Concerns and Complaints".
I am very supportive of the LG project and everyone involved in it. This project has opened other new doors for me personally. I want them to succeed. They may not be the first to have done this, but their timing with YouTube was exactly right, the concept was right, and it was very innovative. I really admire that.
As another forerunner in this medium said recently, the LG team members heads are probably "exploding" and it's really an out of this world ego burst like none of us can imagine. Can you imagine one million people looking at something YOU have done? However, when the dust settles, the "creators" are people just like us and I don't think a reality check every once in a while is a bad thing. And neither is making money off of a creative effort. I agree with that too. |
Yes, criticism is good, but constructive criticism is best, not all the negative stuff I've been seeing. Things like, "I want my $5 back" are pretty negative. The creators really aren't getting any money from the fans, other than the donations, and various other small amounts from ads, so it just seems rather petty to be saying stuff like that. I'm not trying to start a fight, I just feel the negative criticism isn't getting anyone anywhere. |
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khjq Enthusiastic Fan
Joined: 19 Sep 2006 Posts: 442 Location: inside your head
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Posted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 2:35 pm Post subject: |
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khjq wrote: | In that wired article it said that they make over $10,000 a month off the revver ads, plus now they are getting fan donations, plus they say that they have a team of people working for them for free, so there is no way they are scraping by on their personal savings like they have been saying. |
Sorry, that post wasn't suppose to sound harsh or anything, I just didn't understand. Anyway Creator dudes, you guys have been doing a great job, and I am a huge fan, and I will definately still be watching! |
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Luminous Thor's Hammer
Joined: 26 Nov 2006 Posts: 1359 Location: Facility J
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Posted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 3:02 pm Post subject: I vote the donation button stays |
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I must be clueless. I guess I really don't understand what the problem is with a production being wildly successful earning advertising revenues and ALSO providing viewers a low pressure but visible opportunity to donate. They could instead be requiring a subscription to access their content. Many sites do. I'm delighted they aren't.
Personally, I would prefer to see things kept the way they are. Entertainment offered free, subsidized by ad revenues and donations. I am getting free entertainment. If I see something I particularly enjoy, I can applaud the LG15 team with my comments, and more importantly $$$$$$$$$$. It's like stamping my feet and screaming MORE MORE MORE! Or, like throwing tomatoes, I can whine and pay nothing to tell them they are not entertaining me and they are on the wrong track.
This is sooooo NOT a trust issue for me. These people are not coming into my home or accessing my personal life as a accountant, doctor, lawyer or house keeper would. THEY ARE MY ENTERTAINERS. If I am not being entertained, I don't have to watch, and they certainly are not requiring that I pay them.
I think we as viewers need to start using the donation button intelligently. If we like what "the Creators" do, they will be more likely to give us more of what we like if we throw them a few bucks - the value of what we feel we have received - a movie, a new book, going out to dinner, a new cd - we spend money on all these forms of entertainment. Here we have an opportunity for direct feed back like on NPR - "If you like this program, make a donation". It's a way of telling them what has value to us and what doesn't.
For example " I think it sucks that Daniel is being so self centered and tempermental. He should be a better role model for other young men his age." No dollars for you.
Or " I think they need to go in search of Bree's Parent's - they need to find them and help each other out of this mess " Hmmmm that might be worth $5 to me.
Viewers - if you can't afford to or don't want to click the donate button then don't. No one is holding a gun to your head (unless OpAphid has found you But keep it to yourself. Don't throw water on the creators for making the option available.
Sorry for being so longwinded.
Luminous |
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jsmith Suspiciously Absent
Joined: 06 Nov 2006 Posts: 23
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Posted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 3:21 pm Post subject: merchandising |
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we are working as fast as we can to be ready in time for christmas on both the technical and the marketing side. I can't go into all details here, but I can say it takes time to do what we are doing. |
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curiousGeorge Enthusiastic Fan
Joined: 06 Sep 2006 Posts: 351 Location: Rancor Cove
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Posted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 5:08 pm Post subject: |
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martha wrote: | Killthesmiley wrote: |
and just a quick edit...
I find is absolutely disgustingthat we as fans are ever DISCUSSING THIS. To me this isn't being supportive at all.
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I agree. I am so sick of the negativity from certain people. If you don't like how it's turning out, stop watching. |
Ok, I just had to address this. First of all, I just checked and I was the #7 person to register to this forum and was active on the original phorum. So what you ask? That means I have been following the antics of the creators (small c for those of you are keeping track) from almost day one. I think that gives me a little more perspective than most. Most of the people who you would categorize as negative are of the same vintage. I am not a mind numbingly dumb phoron who believes every bit of pap that is thrown out by these people.
I would remind you that we are some of the same people who called out the creators for the Yousefgate fiasco, which I assume most fans would agree with if they knew what really went on... These people have a record of disinformation and exaggeration. Yes, I donated myself during the Yousefgate debacle because I believed at the time that it might save this young man's job.
OK, Final Jeopardy Question:
Is it "Art" or is it "Commerce""
If it is "Art", then then whole product placement, blah, blah, blah thing is BS because they should be doing all of this for the sake of Art. This does not appear to be the case and has drawn the ire of the YouTube community, which was the initial venue for this production and still brings in the majority of the eyeballs.
OK, so then it is "Commerce". What commercial enterprise begs for money to keep itself in business. If they have not found a successful business model, that is THEIR problem. Poor planning on their part does not constitute financial burden on the fan's part. The NPR analogy does not work, BTW. They do not do product placement or the like, it is straight donations...
I suppose the answer is that it is Poorly Marketed Art. _________________ All Your Base are Belong to Bukanator |
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Broken Kid Site Admin
Joined: 14 Sep 2006 Posts: 5276
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Posted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 5:11 pm Post subject: |
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curiousGeorge wrote: | OK, so then it is "Commerce". What commercial enterprise begs for money to keep itself in business. If they have not found a successful business model, that is THEIR problem. Poor planning on their part does not constitute financial burden on the fan's part. The NPR analogy does not work, BTW. They do not do product placement or the like, it is straight donations...
I suppose the answer is that it is Poorly Marketed Art. |
I would just point out that the admins/creators added the PayPal donation button at the fans' many (and frequent - I believe some folks had mentioned it for several weeks) requests. So it's not really begging. _________________ President of the Owen Fan Club |
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Luminous Thor's Hammer
Joined: 26 Nov 2006 Posts: 1359 Location: Facility J
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Posted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 6:02 pm Post subject: |
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curiousGeorge wrote: | OK, Final Jeopardy Question:
Is it "Art" or is it "Commerce""
If it is "Art", then then whole product placement, blah, blah, blah thing is BS because they should be doing all of this for the sake of Art. This does not appear to be the case and has drawn the ire of the YouTube community, which was the initial venue for this production and still brings in the majority of the eyeballs.
OK, so then it is "Commerce". What commercial enterprise begs for money to keep itself in business. If they have not found a successful business model, that is THEIR problem. Poor planning on their part does not constitute financial burden on the fan's part. The NPR analogy does not work, BTW. They do not do product placement or the like, it is straight donations... |
I find it interesting that you draw a distinction between Art and Commerce. Is it possible that Art is a product, and Commerce is a means of funding it? If art is not funded, the artist is limited to what resources and materials are available within their means. This limits what the artist can produce. If the art produced by the artist pleases an audience, what is wrong with the audience having an opportunity to show their appreciation by contributing financially?
Your statement appears to imply that art is only Art if it is funded by the artists themselves. If the art generates any source of revenue that would render it profitable, it is no longer art, and is somehow scamming the audience.
Actually, rather than art, I think LG15 is entertainment. (Not to say that it isn't artistic.) Historically, entertainment has been funded by a combination of advertising revenues and purchases by the audience of tickets and/or merchandise. In the earliest days of entertainment, it was funded by passing around the hat.
Possibly we should look at the donation button in that light - as a digital means of passing the hat, so those of us who appreciate the show can toss in our quarters.
Lum |
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trainer101 Moderator Manager
Joined: 20 Sep 2006 Posts: 2671 Location: Wasting away again ILLUMINATIVILLE...
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Posted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 6:13 pm Post subject: |
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Luminous wrote: | I find it interesting that you draw a distinction between Art and Commerce. Is it possible that Art is a product, and Commerce is a means of funding it? If art is not funded, the artist is limited to what resources and materials are available within their means. This limits what the artist can produce. If the art produced by the artist pleases an audience, what is wrong with the audience having an opportunity to show their appreciation by contributing financially?
Your statement appears to imply that art is only Art if it is funded by the artists themselves. If the art generates any source of revenue that would render it profitable, it is no longer art, and is somehow scamming the audience.
Actually, rather than art, I think LG15 is entertainment. (Not to say that it isn't artistic.) Historically, entertainment has been funded by a combination of advertising revenues and purchases by the audience of tickets and/or merchandise. In the earliest days of entertainment, it was funded by passing around the hat.
Possibly we should look at the donation button in that light - as a digital means of passing the hat, so those of us who appreciate the show can toss in our quarters.
Lum |
Excellent rebuttal! I would only add this. If, throughout history, artists were prohibited from profiting from their work, then very little art would exist. _________________ It's STILL all connected... |
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Luminous Thor's Hammer
Joined: 26 Nov 2006 Posts: 1359 Location: Facility J
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Posted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 6:47 pm Post subject: |
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trainer101 wrote: | If, throughout history, artists were prohibited from profiting from their work, then very little art would exist. |
Amen! |
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curiousGeorge Enthusiastic Fan
Joined: 06 Sep 2006 Posts: 351 Location: Rancor Cove
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Posted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 6:58 pm Post subject: |
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That was a well written rebuttal! It is refreshing to see a grammatically correct sentence written here. The "Jonas is Hawwwwt!" posters probably don't even care if they are being manipulated and mislead, but others do.
Perhaps my own poor writing failed to articulate the key point I was trying to make, so I will attempt it again. The creators have from the beginning been masters of manipulation and slight of hand. Sometimes this has been really cool, such as masquerading Bree as a real vlog. If you were around for the "hunt" I think you will know what I mean.
Most of the time these deceptions and falsehoods have not been of benefit to the cast, fans, or the emerging Internet Mini Series Industry. Examples of these are too numerous to mention if you have been watching them since the beginning, as I suspect you have not... That is fair, you WILL catch on to them if you stick around long enough. You appear to be fairly bright!
Just keep an eye out for what comes out of the M &M spin machine. And yes, people will continue to call them out when it is needed. I'll be back when needed, I think a point has been made.
Have fun! _________________ All Your Base are Belong to Bukanator |
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Luminous Thor's Hammer
Joined: 26 Nov 2006 Posts: 1359 Location: Facility J
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Posted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 7:31 pm Post subject: |
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curiousGeorge wrote: | That was a well written rebuttal! It is refreshing to see a grammatically correct sentence written here. The "Jonas is Hawwwwt!" posters probably don't even care if they are being manipulated and mislead, but others do.
Perhaps my own poor writing failed to articulate the key point I was trying to make, so I will attempt it again. The creators have from the beginning been masters of manipulation and slight of hand. Sometimes this has been really cool, such as masquerading Bree as a real vlog. If you were around for the "hunt" I think you will know what I mean.
Most of the time these deceptions and falsehoods have not been of benefit to the cast, fans, or the emerging Internet Mini Series Industry. Examples of these are too numerous to mention if you have been watching them since the beginning, as I suspect you have not... That is fair, you WILL catch on to them if you stick around long enough. You appear to be fairly bright!
Just keep an eye out for what comes out of the M &M spin machine. And yes, people will continue to call them out when it is needed. I'll be back when needed, I think a point has been made.
Have fun! |
Thanks for the compliment . It gives me something to live up to.
I have, actually, been lurking around since the third video. I caught on just previously to Bree being revealed as an actress. I'm aware of the inconsistencies and multiple stories - one face presented to the fans, another to the industry, another to the media. It's Hollywood. It's the standard of practice. I wouldn't expect it to be otherwise.
The new ingredient, which I find fascinating, is that interactivity exposes it all. Hollywood has feared and fought this since they caught on to what the internet was capable of.
So here I sit, popcorn in hand, watching it all unfold, and wondering how this level of open, frank, minimally hindered involvement of the audience is going to alter the nature not only of entertainment but of society as a whole.
These are interesting times. The game is so much bigger. LG15 is only a microcosm of the macrocosm - which is what we should REALLY be examining. Marshall Mcluhan in practice rather than theory.
Cheers,
Luminous |
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martha Enthusiastic Fan
Joined: 22 Sep 2006 Posts: 279 Location: Colorado
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Posted: Sun Dec 03, 2006 12:13 am Post subject: |
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curiousGeorge wrote: | martha wrote: | Killthesmiley wrote: |
and just a quick edit...
I find is absolutely disgustingthat we as fans are ever DISCUSSING THIS. To me this isn't being supportive at all.
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I agree. I am so sick of the negativity from certain people. If you don't like how it's turning out, stop watching. |
Ok, I just had to address this. First of all, I just checked and I was the #7 person to register to this forum and was active on the original phorum. So what you ask? That means I have been following the antics of the creators (small c for those of you are keeping track) from almost day one. I think that gives me a little more perspective than most. Most of the people who you would categorize as negative are of the same vintage. I am not a mind numbingly dumb phoron who believes every bit of pap that is thrown out by these people.
I would remind you that we are some of the same people who called out the creators for the Yousefgate fiasco, which I assume most fans would agree with if they knew what really went on... These people have a record of disinformation and exaggeration. Yes, I donated myself during the Yousefgate debacle because I believed at the time that it might save this young man's job.
OK, Final Jeopardy Question:
Is it "Art" or is it "Commerce""
If it is "Art", then then whole product placement, blah, blah, blah thing is BS because they should be doing all of this for the sake of Art. This does not appear to be the case and has drawn the ire of the YouTube community, which was the initial venue for this production and still brings in the majority of the eyeballs.
OK, so then it is "Commerce". What commercial enterprise begs for money to keep itself in business. If they have not found a successful business model, that is THEIR problem. Poor planning on their part does not constitute financial burden on the fan's part. The NPR analogy does not work, BTW. They do not do product placement or the like, it is straight donations...
I suppose the answer is that it is Poorly Marketed Art. |
I see absolutely no problem with constructive criticism, but I really haven't seen a whole lot of that here, it's mostly negative. Criticise all you want, but do it in a positive way. Keep calling them out when you think they make mistakes, but to do so in such an immature, negative manner would certainly make me disregard your criticism. |
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