Difference between revisions of "Talk:Main Page"

Revision as of 05:56, 16 November 2006

What is this???

It's a Wiki for the Lonelygirl15 series. It's just beginning, and it seems that there is only one other user besides me who has started to contribute. Eventually, it will be like an encylopedia that anyone can edit. If you know how a Wiki works and would like to contribute, it'd be great. If you don't know how a wiki works, then maybe you should just look around and see how things work until a help page of sorts gets written up. --TheNunOwnedGoat 14:57, 29 September 2006 (PDT)

So what do we have to discuss on here?? ELLO POPPET! Cuz I noticed my last post was deleted.

Your last post was deleted because you blanked the comments of previous users, which is generally frowned upon on talk pages.

This is the talk page for the main page of the LGpedia; any suggestions or comments you have about the Main Page are the kind of thing we should discuss here. - Dharmabum420 03:42, 1 October 2006 (PDT)

Well I do have one suggestion. Its not on the main page but its on lg15.com Well u could add an rss later on when the website is done. It would be quite helpful. Anywayz Depends on u Thanks anywayz. Keep up the good work

• This is really strange.

YouTube videos

I understand the reasons for the policy regarding only posting Revver videos. I feel, however, that if this is to be a good wiki, we should at least always provide a link to YouTube as well. For several reasons: 1) Thoroughness is preferable. 2) Some browsers, especially on computers where the user does not have admin privileges (such as younger fans or people at work) and can't install different software, do not support the file format of Revver. The Wiki should not impede fans with such limitations 3) The tags and dialog that went with the YouTube videos are interesting to many people.--JayHenry 12:50, 3 October 2006 (PDT)

I agree that links to both YouTube and Revver should be provided.--Brucker 09:47, 10 October 2006 (PDT)

Terry might address this, but I believe the site owners specifically requested that wherever possible, the video links should point to Revver instead of to YouTube. There is even a note regarding this preference in the text of the MainPage. (Nora at work)

Hi Nora, did you read my original post on this? I acknowledged the note on the main page in my post. I think it's okay if they point first to revver, but I said they should also point to YouTube. I also explained my reasoning -- points 1, 2 and 3. YouTube links can go at the bottom, if they must. But for someone interested in the tags, or the video responses, or with software unable to watch Revver videos, it's just going out of our way to be unaccomodating if we censor the YouTube links. And that's not the sort of behavior a wiki should support.--JayHenry 11:04, 10 October 2006 (PDT)

Well, the site belongs to the site owners. The site owners legitimately want to promote getting a return on their investment, however small the return from Revver clickthrus might be. Having a resource on the site they own point to their preferred site for video embedding, *rather than* to another site, is their prerogative. I feel it's a gross misuse of the concept "censorship" to use it in this context. Censoring is done primarily by governmental entities, primarily to suppress information. This official site preferring one host site for its videos over other sites is no more censorship than Anchor Cove deciding not to host a forum for cassieiswatching. On the other hand, I'm not going to get into a revert war over this. Although this is a wiki, I don't the the culture of a promotional wiki is identical to the culture which wikipedia itself cultivates. Nora 16:34, 10 October 2006 (PDT)

I didn't mean censor as a loaded word. We're saying more or less the same thing -- I really, really understand their reasoning. They asked us to include Revver links in the templates. We've done that. By putting YouTube links at the bottom of the video pages (and they'll really be buried now that video pages have gotten so big) we're not hurting their project, but also not inconveniencing people who are going to visit YouTube no matter what for reasons 2 and 3.--JayHenry 17:44, 10 October 2006 (PDT)

Bukanator?

We've had a small revert war going on regarding Bukanator and Grant Steinfeld. Full disclosure: I originally created both pages because I thought they were significant. But it's not productive to keep deleting and undeleting his name from the main page. I think we should discuss if he belongs on the main page and where, and see if we can reach a consensus.--JayHenry 08:44, 8 October 2006 (PDT)

I started a discussion about this just before getting this message in a private part of the forum. So Nora and I will probably sort it out there. Thanks for intervening though, and we will keep you updated with what gets decided, I agree something had to be done. HyeMew 08:51, 8 October 2006 (PDT)

I think it should be an open, not private, discussion. It seems to me that it's a problem because of Bukanator's strange status within the Breeniverse. He is a creation of The Creators and lonelygirl15 and Danielbeast both acknowledged him, and his administration of the fansite, in the comments of YouTube, thus he is a character. Comments from the YouTube accounts are canon, thus he is canon. So he's a canon unseen character. I think you could make the case that a better classification could be used than "unseen," but rather than add a category that's only Bukanator, I think we should leave him as an unseen character, and explain his story fully in his article--JayHenry 09:19, 8 October 2006 (PDT)

It is only a private convo because of the category I placed it in. It could very well be moved to a public one, I know I'd like you to see it Jay. Of course lg15 and db "acknowledged" Buka, there is no question that he is "canon" and not a cassie spin-off character. What I'm saying is whether he is a character in the integral story line. For example in the Cookie movie some people that sent in suggestions were mentioned. Winekone and Brookers, etc. have been mentioned in the videos as well. Buka has not. Does that mean these random people are "unseen" characters too, just because Bree has mentioned them? No, Winekone nor Buka (as of right now) have not done anything to be a "part" of the story, and therefore not a character. If things had gone according to plan, we all would have thought Buka to just be some random fan who made a site like all the rest of us and there wouldn't even be a discussion as to whether he's a character to the plot or not. Remember, every page ever doesn't need a special place on the main page. I wouldn't be opposed to Buka being somewhere (a crew section, perhaps, as he is a "crew" member of sorts), but we can't confuse running the tribute site with being a character in the story! I can tell you right now a "bukanator" will never drop by in the videos ever, so why put him in a pantheon with Paul, Andrea, Bree's mom..., who one day could? HyeMew 09:57, 8 October 2006 (PDT)

We don't know that Buka would never have had a larger role in the ongoing storyline. I feel that to be an unwarranted assumption. If the "storyline" is perceived as being Bree and Daniel *and the response building up around them on the internet,* then any entity confirmed to have been invented by Miles/Mesh/Greg is just as valid a character as Daniel and Bree and Lucy are. If it is invalid to list Boris Bukanator as a character, although he comes from the Creators, why do we accept the tutle's name as "Owen," when that didn't come from the Creators? In other words, "DUCK SEASON!" Nora 03:26, 8 October 2006 (PDT)

"We don't know that Buka would never have had a larger role in the ongoing storyline... an unwarranted assumption" Well I think similarly it's an unwarrented assumption that, until he does, that he WILL have a larger part in the story! Also, what do you mean about why do we accept the turtle's name as canon? It did come from the creators. As of Grillz the title mentioned "featuring Ow'n". "WABBIT SEASON!" HyeMew 13:03, 8 October 2006 (PDT)

It depends what you mean by storyline. Buka's not integral to the storyline if you mean the storyline of Daniel and Bree as written by Mesh. But he is integral to the storyline of how the Lonelygirl15 production played out in the real world. Buka's fan site is integral to the production -- his fan site is still the hub of the LG15 community. I would argue that Winekone and Brookers and SteveXCraig are not characters because they're real people. Bukanator is, quite literally, a "character." Maybe we should make a separate category for him, other than "Unseen Characters," but I don't see anything that merits him being bumped off the main page. Unrelatedly, I think Paul and Andrea should be the same page for now -- right now they're a single entity.--JayHenry 16:18, 8 October 2006 (PDT)

DUCK SEASON!

Combining Paul and Andrea would be a waste, because what if they do diverge, even in a slight way? That's just unecessary. I agree Buka can be on the main page, just not in the "unseen characters" section. Unseen characters section should refer to those who have a chance of showing up and are in "Bree's" world. I think Bukanator, as he "acts" as a staff member, despite being just a character should be listed in the staff section. That way he is on the main page as desired but not listed as a character in the videos' story line.

I think that is an acceptable compromise. What is NOT acceptable is me just having to remove a "Boris Bukatar" as an unseen story character when he is ALREADY listed in the staff section. No matter what Bukanator and Boris Bukatar are completely one-in-the-same and there is NO reason to list him twice like that, nor to give Boris a page seperate from his on-line name Bukanator. HyeMew 07:59, 9 October 2006 (PDT)

Hye, my secret boyfriend, you're about a day behind the times. Bukanator has very, *very* recently begun to come out of hibernation and act as an independent character. JayHenry can probably fill you in, or Milowent. Buka has (or once had) a pet dog and liked to swim. He (is?) is moving and talking and communicating with people now. Might be a spoof, might not be a spoof, but until we know differently, he/it is as much a provisional character as anyone else. Remember that in the greater Breeniverse, we are 'all characters, as we have received in revelatory hallucination from our Holy Guardian Angel. This very wiki talk page discussion is quasi in-character. Nora 09:22, 9 October 2006 (PDT)

Huh where can I find more about this? Is this a joke?? Buka had a dog?! Who cares! Down with Buka!! Besides, you can't detach Bukanator from Boris Bukatar, they are one in the same still. This is like saying danielbeast had a pet cockateil and went to public school while Daniel has a pet tortoise and went to a private school. There cannot be two different identities, that just isn't fair. Whatever the case is I think these new Buka updates are pure rubbish, whatever the story behind them are. HyeMew 10:08, 9 October 2006 (PDT)

yeah, Bukanator at the cove has registered with the e-mail address Bukanator@lonelygirl15.com -- since the Cove requires e-mail verification, it's definitely admins of the project who are behind it. He's been sending PMs to a lot of people. But, this discussion seems to be closed, right? We've agreed to leave ONE Bukanator entry on the main page? Take this bizarre love affair elsewhere, you two!--JayHenry 12:19, 9 October 2006 (PDT)

Be vewwy vewwy qwiet, JayHenry... someone is hunting wabbits.... or possibly ducks. Or both! Buka buka! OKAY, how about this for a compromise. The departed, not-all-that-lamented-by-the-oldschool-fans, alleged-by-Candace-Murphy NDA-breaker Grant Stenfield is actually referred to as "Grant Stenfield." We give him a nice and proper divorce from el Bukanator, aside from a mention that it is suspected that Grant originally manned that puppet. THEN we create a new Ambiguous Characters section for characters whose direct status within the Holy Breeniverse are as yet, uhm, shall we say, "quantum." "Amorphous." "Schroedingerified." The mysterious stoli-swilling, amnesiac zombie Boris Bukanator goes there. Sound good? Baseball season? Nora 13:21, 9 October 2006 (PDT)

lonelygirl15 vs. danielbeast videos indexing

Does anyone else but me think there should be not just an index for the videos as a whole but a separate index for the lonelygirl15 videos and the danielbeast videos? That is to say that while Daniel Responds is episode "0007", it might also be referred to as video "D001", and episode "0011" Boy Problems... could also be "B010"? Although it would take some work, I admit, it might be nice for certain purposes to not only have the navigation pane below each video as it currently is, but also a similar one with which you could skip to "Next Daniel Blog", you know?--Brucker 09:57, 10 October 2006 (PDT)

I don't see the use. They're already sorted into categories for Bree's blogs and Daniel's blogs. But Daniel's blogs are meaningless outside the sequence of Bree's. For me, this would only add useless clutter.--JayHenry 11:06, 10 October 2006 (PDT)

Actress playing Lucy

Personally, I don't think Lucy looks like Liza Weil at all, but maybe it's just me. Anyway, I think we should hold off on listing a name on the front page so long as we don't have solid evidence. I'm taking the name off. --Brucker

I completely agree. This information is highly speculative and almost absolutely wrong. Some speculation in the Lucy entry is fine, but random guesses on the main page is not.--JayHenry 10:50, 18 October 2006 (PDT)

Suggestion to admins?

On a semi-related note to the previous matter, it seems to me that the Main page is the one most susceptible to vandalism and see-sawing fights over content. Is it possible to make this page editable only by registered users so that we could at least cut down on that? Sure, it wouldn't solve the issue, but it would help. --Brucker 10:54, 18 October 2006 (PDT)

I do not believe in censorship. Its up to the users to keep the wiki accurate and if someone does not want to register that should be their perogative in a free society.--Modelmotion

I don't know the ins and outs of moderating users' comments, but assuming that a person who was not registered could still edit this page, I don't see any problem at all. If they didn't want to register, but they had a good suggestion for the main page, they could put it here, and one of the registered users could update it. --208.144.234.2 12:47, 19 October 2006 (PDT)

I completely agree with Brucker. While the rest of the 'pedia should be left open to anonymous editors, there's good reason to protect this main page -- it's what most people see when they come here, and there aren't enough active editors to police the main page 24/7. Wikipedia protects its main page for the same reasons. It's not censorship to require somebody to take 30 seconds to sign up for an account before they edit this main portal. But it will deter vandals who like to show up, change the main page to say, "My Parents Suck Daniel's Dick" and leave.--JayHenry 09:49, 19 October 2006 (PDT)

Furthermore, if someone was really, really dedicated to vandalising the front page, they still could, they'd just have to register (and maybe wait 24 hours? Is that part of the process?).--208.144.234.2 12:47, 19 October 2006 (PDT)

I would say that the Gemma videos should be added to "The Videos" on the main page. I realize that it would take a little work but now that we have her listed as official I think it would make sense. - modelmotion

She's been added. I think the indented ordering for her videos works on the Main Page since there really is no way of inserting her into the numbering scheme. -- Twjaniak 11:50, 30 October 2006 (PST)

Hey, twjaniak, since you're here reading this, and you're apparently an admin, what about the original topic of this section? --Brucker 12:12, 30 October 2006 (PST)

I've thought about locking it to registered users only. However, it's been registered users who have been some of the biggest offenders of flip-flopping the Main Page. I will try locking it. If we receive complaints I'll drop the lock. Perhaps this will motivate more people to create an account and dive into doing serious work. -- Twjaniak 13:57, 30 October 2006 (PST)

Yeah, it's not very pretty, but it works. Is there some way to make that indent smaller? And some better way to indicate Gemma than her name in parantheses?--JayHenry 12:07, 30 October 2006 (PST)

Have a look at what I have done for the unnumbered Gemma videos on the Main Page -- Twjaniak 14:08, 30 October 2006 (PST)

I think that looks better.--JayHenry 15:16, 30 October 2006 (PST)

Papakonstantinou

Gemma's last name is currently unknown. Any additions of the surname, Papakonstantinou, should be removed. Twjaniak 21:58, 29 October 2006 (PST)

Cite/Cite.php Extension

Should I ask Admin to add support for the Cite.php mediwiki extension? Imported pages with references would work much better if we had this installed. -- Twjaniak 10:42, 31 October 2006 (PST)

I'd also like to add the ParserFunction extension, as this will allow us to make conditional templates. -- Twjaniak 11:05, 31 October 2006 (PST)

I initially tried to set up the templates with some conditionals and couldn't figure out WTF they weren't working! Parser extension would be nice, but templates without conditionals work just as well, for my money, we're just not that big of a 'pedia. As for cite, it's a little complicated too and really only necessary for longer articles which we don't have many of. We couldn't just copy wiki articles over because they usually use several wikipedia-specific templates that we'd have to copy over manually as well. I just wish somebody would invest the time in cleaning up what we have. Look at any of the articles on religion to see what I mean. On the other hand, it won't mess anything up to add the extensions, so if you want to invest the time, go for it.--JayHenry 11:17, 31 October 2006 (PST)

Location pages?

I'm wondering if we really need all these locations. Most of these locations appear in only one video, and the information could just as easily be listed there. For the few locations that appear in multiple videos and therefore have some significance -- Bree's room, Daniel's room and Gemma's flat, I'm fine with keeping the pages. But a page for "The Chain Linked Fence"? I vote no.--JayHenry 13:02, 2 November 2006 (PST)

Actually, there's another problem with the fence page, and that is that the location should really be "Daniel's friend's house" or something like that, and be the location of I Listened To Daniel. What might be a nice solution is to either compromise with an "Other locations" page like the did with Other fanfic, or maybe even better, have a single page for all the locations excepting Bree's bedroom. After all, with the exception of Lucy's apartment, all of these pages have only one or two sentences, and that location's information really fits best on the page Following The Helper. I say do away with all location pages (and the category, too) and only have pages for locations that really have enough info to warrant a page. (At this point, only Bree's bedroom, IMO.) Put the rest of the info on a single page called something like Video locations with sections for each location in the order they appear. --Brucker 13:20, 2 November 2006 (PST)

I really think a Video locations page is unnecessary. Why not just include the information on these places in the videos in which they appear?--JayHenry 14:22, 2 November 2006 (PST)

I agree that there is a need to do away with superfluous pages. If someone would like to start consolidating the information, I can delete the unneeded pages upon completion. -- Twjaniak 14:10, 2 November 2006 (PST)

Location are just as critical to any film/video production as characters, script etc. The locations reveal a lot of interesting information that is is ofter not covered in LGpedia. I thus think its a perfectly valid category and should be left alone. It will just take a little more work to improve the content...but as with any wiki its an on going process.--modelmotion 17:29, 15 November 2006 (PST)

Absolutely. And nobody is saying that the locations should not be mentioned. What we are saying is that not every location needs its own page. Since most of these locations appear in only one video, it would be better to include location information in the video. I propose we delete all locations that appear in only one video, and move whatever information is on that page, to the video's page.--JayHenry 18:40, 15 November 2006 (PST)

I have nominated the superfluous pages for deletion. To see which pages have been nominated, see Category:Articles_marked_for_deletion. We have a lot of content, but it's time to make sure that content is better-organized.--JayHenry 18:51, 15 November 2006 (PST)

I was going to spend some time working on the "Story up to now...} but if this is how its gonna be I am just going to put that energy into what I consider more important - the locations. I wish i had more time, but I will do what I can do. --modelmotion 19:07, 15 November 2006 (PST)

As for the number of times a location appears we have no idea which locations will appear in future episodes. As the series develops this could clarify things.....but unit that happens its easier just to have the total list. One solution would be to group some of the less freequent locations on new page....hum...let me give that a try--modelmotion 19:15, 15 November 2006 (PST)

Ok Jay, thanks for the input. I moved things around a bit and I think that will allow us to keep all the locations and still meet your concerns. What do you think? I personally like having all locations pages to refer to......thats why I added most of them in the first place.--modelmotion 19:27, 15 November 2006 (PST)

Oh and I have already added addional content to some of the pages.--modelmotion 19:28, 15 November 2006 (PST)

Jay has requested that i respond to location pages only on this page, so I would like to object strongly to the deletion of any location page!!!!--modelmotion 19:30, 15 November 2006 (PST)

I requested that you respond to the question: "does every location needs its own page?" on this page, and that issues about specific locations be addressed on their page. Modelmotion, do you understand that nobody is suggesting we delete any information. We just want things to be better organized, and most of these location-pages are just extra pages with useless or redundant information. Why should something like The Chain-Link Fence just not be mentioned in the video in which Daniel stands in front of it?--JayHenry 20:09, 15 November 2006 (PST)

The chain link fense is not the important part. Where the chain link fense is located is infact relevant. According to the page "The chain-link fence is outside the home of the friend Daniel is staying with when he records I'm Hiding Out." That is useful information. Now which friends is he referring to would help pin down that location.....but so far its unknown. However the purpose of this page is to discuss all aspects of the locations and what it might mean in terms of the plot. I dont see this informotion anywhere else.........and i personally think the new organization resolves most of the problem. I want to keep all the locations and I contribute a lot to this site. I do appreciate comments and suggestions but I dont like being pushed around. If you dont like my contributions just say so and I will go away because this heavy handed stuff is taking all the fun and enjoyment out of LG for me. "Do what thou Wilt shall be the whole of the Law" --modelmotion 20:24, 15 November 2006 (PST)

Jay, you ask"I requested that you respond to the question: "does every location needs its own page?" on this page". My answer is categorically YES...and i have done my best to ensure that each new location was added to the list. Now some locations such as triving around are hard to categorise and can be discussed in the context of the major locations that are mentioned. A few locations were added by other contributers but they failed to add any details. I have tried to add what I could but like you, my time is liimited. However I am happy with the current list and I feel that it accurately portrays the locations that I feel need to mentioned. The use of the term chain linked fense was selected because its was more descriptive than Daniels friends which would have been highly ambiguous. So, there is a reason for picking these locations, there is a reason for naming them the way they have been named and each of the pages now has some relevant information which hopefully will provide a catalyst for discussion. Hence i see no need to delete these pages and no better way to organize the information. If I did I would be the first to move the stuff around so it would be where users can find it easily.--modelmotion 20:31, 15 November 2006 (PST)

Incidentally I real a lot of comments after the videos and terms that I use are often inflenced by how users talk about a subject. That is where the description came from for the chain linked fense, because if you go back and read the comments thats how users described the location.--modelmotion 20:33, 15 November 2006 (PST)

You actually said "Please continue the discussion at Talk:Main Page unless you have particular points to add about the Swimming Hole as deserving of its own page.--JayHenry 19:03, 15 November 2006 (PST)" I dont want to post redunant information all over the place because you are challenging multiple pages. I have therefore tried to keep it simple for you and make the case for all locations pages to be left alone.--modelmotion 20:38, 15 November 2006 (PST)

"Modelmotion, there's no reason for you to take this personally. I honestly don't understand why you're so upset, or what you feel is "heavy-handed." This wiki is a community effort, it's not your personal playground. Sometimes people disagree about how something should appear, and when that happens we have to discuss it. Please calm down.--JayHenry 20:44, 15 November 2006 (PST)"

my response (i dont even know the appropriate place to respond to these things

Well it is how I feel. I put a lot of effort into LG and while i feel you have the best intentions and actually make intelligent comments I feel at times that the pedia is taking itself a bit too seriously. We want to have fun.....we want to contribute. I totally understand your desire to make it the bet LGpedia that it can be, but if that requires crushing the spirit of a fan like me then I think you are missing the entire point. Free will is a central issue in LG. I dont believe in censorship and that beginning to happen more and more in the chats. Control can be a friend but it can also be the demon within. Just ask the participants in the Standford Prision experiment. I think i provide a pretty good solution by moving many of the locations off the main page. I went thru each of the pages and improved the content to better reflect what i think it should be. I think the use of pictures if very helpful in telling the story thru locations...........but thats as far as I am willing to go. The pages say they are up for deletion. They give no indication of when or how the process works . When you say there is not information to justify the page you are directly challenging my desire for the page to exist so of course I am going to get upset.--modelmotion 20:58, 15 November 2006 (PST)

OK, it appears i'm wading into a big debate among the lgpedia titans here, but my suggestion is that the "Other Locations page" that appears to be new should contain all the random locations on one page, and can provide links there to the page for the video that happened to discuss that page. like, for lucy's apartment, i'd want to see that Breaking and entering vid page anyway. we don't need to have a page for each separate location. no material needs to be deleted, it seems you are just talking about the best organization. anyhow, that's my 2 cents. --Milowent 21:07, 15 November 2006 (PST)

As far as I am concerned that make life more complicated and since I have been a primary contributer to these pages and will contintue to do so I want to keep it as simple as possible. If you guys want to do all the work yourself then be my guest. If not, leave it the way that works for people spending time on the pages..............and i certainly dont limit that to myself. However I think the people who are making significant contributions should have their opinion heard. I know that Jay does a lot of work and tried hard to to keep things organized.......i just strongly disagree with his approach in this instance.--modelmotion 21:16, 15 November 2006 (PST)

Guys, I would really appreciate it if you all can take some time out from debating the importance of the locations to pool your resources instead and handle a topic that the Creators would love to see handled: The Story So Far.... This is a project that the Creators view as being the number one objective of LGpedia efforts at this moment. -- Twjaniak 21:50, 15 November 2006 (PST)

I started the page last night and i began work on it earlier only to find that i have to spend a massive amount of time defending other pages. Like i said previoiusly something has to give and thats gonna be The story so far........good luck with that project....i am out of it now.