Jonas Conference Call
In Playing Doctor (Dec. 3, 2007), Jonas stated that he wanted people's thoughts on how to bring the Order down, and wanted to talk on the phone will people about it. On December 13, 2007, at 7pm PST, Jonas conducted a conference call with fans.
The audio of the conference call was made available on the forum two days after the call: Forum thread with download link
Revelations from the chat
- Jonas tells everyone that he wants to concentrate on bringing down the Order through by "smearing dirt on" their public faces. Immediately, he sees the Lullaby Project as the easiest front of attack.
- The TAAG will continue to try and save Ceremony girls, though he is afraid of luring the Order to them.
- Dr. Hart has been shown the notes regarding Bree's injections and believes that Emma has gotten sick by being given a double-dosage of the injections.
- Jonas trusts Dr. Hart because Emma does. He goes on to ask people to tell the TAAG when they are doing something stupid.
- Something is "in the works", which Jonas cannot discuss at liberty.
- The TAAG is aware of their mistakes and is willing to learn from them. They plan on looking into using lookouts in the future, but their numbers are not helping.
- Jonas does not wish to endanger anyone by having them attempt to help. He wants to keep in-person fan interaction to a minimum to keep all parties safe.
- Dr. Hart's access to the Verdus website has been cut, but they know that the site contains inter-office memos and research notes, among other important documents. Taylor has not been able to hack her way through the system.
- Sonia is believed to have run away and left the Ceremony baby in California.
- Emma is a natural trait positive, supposedly discovered through tests run by Dr. Hart at Verdus.
- Jonas has been in contact with Charlie from KateModern.
- Bree's P. Monkey email is long gone, and there is no foreseeable way to recover it.
At the end of the call, Virgil hacked in, telling Jonas "You're the one who should be watching out. Santa has a present for you. Check your stocking on Christmas Day."
Jonas: Oh, I'm--Definitely. Here's a shout-out to everyone who's doing this. I-I really appreciate everybody's help who's on chat, who's calling in. Um, you guys are awesome. And uh--
Broken Kid: So--On that note, why don't we, uh, why don't we get started? Uh...I think hopefulsemblance had the--the first question we're going to ask you, Jonas, about, um, finding some-some altered trait-positives.
hopefulsemblance: Thanks, BK. Um, hey, Jonas, how are you?
Jonas: Hey, what's going on?
hopefulsemblance: Um, how are you guys planning on finding and treating the altered trait-positives? And is there anything that we can do to help?
Jonas: Well, I mean as-as far as we know, I guess, um, I don't think there's any other living altered trait-positives that are out there. You know what I mean? I mean, Gina was really the only one that Dr. Hart had ever known that lived to be that close to being an adult. Um, but, I guess... you know, if-if they were out there, if there were any, of cour- I mean, we'd want to help them. Absolutely. But I-I think, too-I think, too, that's kind of limited, in a way. You know what I mean? Because trying to save just one girl at a time I think is the best thing to do. You know, in-instead of doing that, we just want to shut down the Lullaby Project. We wanna expose Verdus, um, and, you know, I mean that's just the approach we're taking. If anybody has any better ideas, like, I mean that's what this is all about, so... I'd love to know. So, I guess-I guess we don't know about any, uh, altered. We-we-- It's also been our policy--we want to help people, but we really think the best way to do it is to take these people down. Hit 'em where it hurts, you know?
Jonas: Do you have any ideas though? Anything? That we could do differently?
hopefulsemblance: I can't really think of anything.
Jonas: Oh. (Sighs.) Alright.
Broken Kid: You-you also had a question, hopeful, about, uh, the Ceremony girls, right?
hopefulsemblance: Yeah. Jonas, like, have you guys just given up or is it on the back burner to rescue all the Ceremony girls?
Jonas: No, no, no, no. It-it's, uh, not on the back burner. Um, that's--it's hard to put it--I guess I'll put it this way. We--We will help people when we find them, but we think that the best thing to do is-is to cut this off at the head. Um, I think going after Ceremony girls at this point might-might hurt them more than help them. Because I-I'm afraid that we might lead them, the Order I mean, we might lead the Order to-to these girls accidentally. That's just our fear. I mean, we haven't had much luck with that in the p- (Laughs.) past, so....
Jonas: Um... You know, thanks, though, I mean, what do you think? What do you think? Do you think that's a good idea? I mean, I don't know, i-it's frustrating to us because we want to go out there and we want and we want to find these girls. Um, but it's a two-e--double-edged sword. I mean, I don't know what's right? The chicken or the egg? Are we bringing bad guys to these girls, or are-are we doing the right thing? (Pauses.) You know?
caalan21: Hey Jonas, this is caalan. So, um, I think that for the most part you guys are going about it pretty much the right way. 'Cause even if you find all these girls, how are you really going to protect them all from the Order? You remember how hard it was to keep Bree away from them, or Emma. How are you gonna do it when you have ten, fifteen, twenty girls under your--you know, under your skirts?
Jonas: Exactly. That's what I'm thinking too.
Broken Kid: Well, uh, Chipper, you had a question about, um, about Dr. Hart and, uh, and Bree you were gonna ask.
Chippercat: Yes, um, actually, according to the recorded call that we had heard between Drew Avery and Isaac Gilman, Bree was only one injection away from being made permanently trait negative. But she never developed any of the same symptoms or the illnesses as Emma and the other girls. So, I'm just curious: You guys have Drew Avery's notes from the Camp Play box, and the box that you guys found at the boat dock. Have y'all shared any of these research notes with Dr. Hart and, if so, what are his thoughts on it?
Jonas: Well, we have. I mean, that's a good--that's a really good question, um, first of all. And we have. Um, it's difficult to talk about right now because, again, I--I'm not sure how secure everything is here. Uh, but--and again, it's hard for me, as well, because I don't speak doctor-talk. It's really hard for me. (Laughing is heard.) Uh, but here's-here's what I remember, uh, and here's what I got from it. That, um, that I guess Emma was given these-these injections right, and I guess she was given double-dosage. Which Bree was only getting, uh, from her dad, who knew what he was doing, was getting a smaller amount; the right level of the dosage. Um, and so, because Emma was getting a double-dosage to begin with and her parents didn't really know what they were doing, I think - I suspect, anyway - that they were giving her more of the shots than she was supposed to get because they wanted to hurry up to get her to be trait negative. Um, so-so that was why she went through those-those, uh--the-the sickness and she, uh, and the--and she--yeah, she went through the series of injections twice. So, that's why she was sick and Bree wasn't.
Chippercat: Okay, so it wasn't just...
Jonas: It's hard for me to do the science talk, but that's-that's what I got out of what he said. And-and as far as if we've shared the information with Dr. Hart, um, yeah, of course we have. 'Cause, um, I mean he's our go-to guy right now. He's all we really have, and we-we trust him. You know? I mean, at first it was like we had to trust him, but now I really--I trust him. Uh, and why-why wouldn't we share everything we have with this guy? That's all we have.
Chippercat: Right. Absolutely. Now, I think there was a lot of confusion. You know, people didn't understand because we had heard that the other girls who were manufactured trait positive and as they turned trait negative they showed these symptoms. So, we thought it had something to do with just the changing from one trait to the next. So, that-that clears up a lot. Thank you very much.
Jonas: Yeah. And I guess that does have something to-to do with it. Um...it-it--But-but, mainly, the reason with the difference was just because of the dosage. Like, the people giving Emma her dosage didn't know what they were doing, um, I guess. And that's what it boils down to. I hope I explained that well enough, 'cause I know these-the technical stuff, like I said: not my thing. But, um, that's an awesome question. Thank you. Um, I appreciate it.
Chippercat: You did great. Thank you.
Broken Kid: That actually leads really well into, uh, a question that P.MONKEYgetsFUNKY had. And I don't know if she's gotten on yet. P.MONKEY, are you there?
Broken Kid: Okay, I think I may have messed up when sending her--I may have misspelled her user name when I sent out that last-second email. Um, but I know-I know what her question was. She wanted to ask about...You know, you mentioned that you guys trust Dr. Hart. And she was basically saying, you know, "why?" 'Cause, the last time somebody was trying to, uh, to help Emma, she almost got killed. You know? So, why do you guys trust Dr. Hart?
Jonas: No. I know and trust me: I've--I-I had my doubts myself. I've second-guessed. I mean, you know my track record with this sort of thing. Um, but the thing I'm keeping in mind here is that I trust him, a, and b I'm not letting her out of my sight. I learned my lesson the last time with the Claire-thing. I-I am not letting her out of my sight.
Broken Kid: Good.
Jonas: But, also--
Chershaytoute: Good boy, Jonas.
Jonas: Yeah. I-at least I learned. I make my mistakes, but I learn. Um, but here's the kicker and here's the thing that really makes me trust this guy: is that Emma trusts him (children cry) ...huh. And Emma never trusted Claire. And I should have listened to her because the girl has really good instincts when it comes to this stuff. Um, and I think that if he'd had wanted to hurt her, I think he could have--he's had his chances. He could have done it at the Verdus lab. Uh, but instead, um, he didn't. He got, uh--he helped us and, uh, he got us out of there safely. And also: the guy's given up his whole career to help us. And, I mean, I just feel like I think we owe him our trust at this point. I think that he's proven--he's done more than anyone could possibly do to prove his worthiness, at least in my eyes. What do you think? I mean, um, I-I trust him. But I also--on the other hand, I also think that everyone should keep their eyes out because we're lost without you guys. Everybody should watch this guy and if you see anything funny at all, I mean, on any level. If this guy's not-not what you think he should be, or if he's suspicious, I mean, you guys need to let us know that immediately. And-and, you know, on the forum or however we can communicate. What do you think? Do you guys-do you trust him?
Chippercat: He seems trustworthy to me.
Jonas: You think so?
Chippercat: So far. So far, so good.
caalan21: Too many-too many--
Jonas: Alright. I've been wrong before and I just... (Laughs.) You know? I'm just going as we go here. Day by day. Making this up as we go. So, uh, I think--
Chershaytoute: I think the day-by-day. That's good.
Jonas: What was that?
Chershaytoute: I think the day-by-day idea is a good one.
Chershaytoute: Just a little piece at a time... and being watchful.
Jonas: Yeah, that's what I--I think it's important to... 'Cause I have a problem with trusting people. Really, uh, I've either not trusted the right person or trusted the right-the wrong person. You know what I mean? I've-I just-I'm constantly trusting the wrong person. So, uh, I need your help.
Broken Kid: So, I think, you know, you talked about Dr. Hart a little bit and, uh, you know, trusting him. Uh, JustAnotherLonelyGirl is going to ask what do you think about--about him and Bree.
JustAnotherLonelyGirl: Uh, yeah. Hi. This is JustAnotherLonelyGirl. Um, but, actually, you can call me Loretta if you want. Um, yeah. Um, well, my question actually resembles a lot what, um, someone said before--I forget who--about Bree and about how, um, how she-when she was turning trait negative she didn't exhibit any of the symptoms. Um, I didn't totally understand how you explained w-why. Can you just re-explain that?
Jonas: Okay. Uh, she didn't show the symptoms, um, and--again: this is to the best of my understanding. I could be wrong. But, she didn't show the symptoms because her dad knew what he was doing when he gave her the trait negative injections. He gave 'em to her slow enough, um, in a low enough dosage that it didn't have an ill effect on her. Almost like an overdose. Like, Emma was given way too much. She went through it twice. She went through two series of sets of-of shots. And, not only that, when she was given to my parents, under their care, we think that they gave her way too much of a dosage because they wanted to essentially hurry up to get her trait negative.
JustAnotherLonelyGirl: Okay. Alright, that clears a lot--
Jonas: Does that make sense?
JustAnotherLonelyGirl: Yeah, that does. Um, have you talked to Dr Hart about, um, Bree's dad, though? I mean, he knew Dr. Gilman. Did he know her dad at all?
Jonas: I'm sorry. I-I didn't hear that. What was that?
JustAnotherLonelyGirl: Um, Dr. Hart said that he worked under Dr. Gilman. Right?
JustAnotherLonelyGirl: So--and Dr. Gilman knew Bree's father. Did, um, Dr. Hart ever run into him?
Jonas: No, as far as I-I have asked him that and he said no, I think. I'm, uh, pretty sure.
JustAnotherLonelyGirl: Okay. Um, well, basically, my question is a lot like, um, the other person before. Uh, first of all, I-I really-I really think that we should go back and review what was done differently with Bree. Which obviously had to do with the dosage.
JustAnotherLonelyGirl: But, um, another thing is, uh, two other things. She was on iron pills. And I'm not sure exactly what that has to do with it, 'cause I don't speak science either, but, um, she was on iron pills and she was taking, like, epogen or something. Right?
Jonas: Right. Yeah.
JustAnotherLonelyGirl: So, I don't know if Dr. Hart could look into that and maybe figure out if that had anything to do with--'cause, I mean, I think that we need to find a way to make trait positive girls trait negative, 'cause, obviously, that would make them useless to the Order. But we need to find a way to do it without hurting them.
Jonas: Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know what? Actually I've-he has talked about that. Um, he is looking into that. Um, it's weird you said that because he is looking into that.
JustAnotherLonelyGirl: Yeah. I think you actually have to look into that and look back at the notebook from, um, from Bree's dad. And also, one other thing I had to ask was, um, the serum that you've been giving Emma and that--I don't know if you've been, um, keeping up with. But there's, like, an extension of the Order in the UK. and, um, Spencer actually contacted a girl named Charlie in the UK. and sent her some of the serum that he had left over. And, um, I'm not sure if that serum is the same serum that had Bree's blood in it. Right?
Jonas: Um... I think-I think so.
JustAnotherLonelyGirl: Yeah. 'Cause I don't know if it-it would be possible to, like, separate it or anything, but maybe Dr. Hart could also use that to kind of test Bree's blood and to find if there's something different about Bree's blood that was helping her. 'Cause obviously she never caught the illness. So...
Jonas: Yeah. No, that's a great-that's a great suggestion. I'm definitely gonna look into that.
JustAnotherLonelyGirl: Yeah. And-and maybe Spencer has some of that left over he could send to you also or something if you don't have--'Cause obviously Emma's parents aren't going to be helpful. (Laughs.) So, um, yeah. I think maybe--
Jonas: I think that's a great idea. Yeah, I think you're on to--I think you're on to something. I think something-like an avenue we definitely need to check out.
JustAnotherLonelyGirl: Thank you.
Broken Kid: So, I think,uh, EricaRocks had a question, too, about--I'm sorry. I'm just gonna kinda keep things flowing here. I know Jonas doesn't-doesn't have a lot of time. You wanted to talk a little about they're-uh, what they're doing right now.
EricaRocks: My question is--this is EricaRocks. My question is kinda general. Uh, it's more like why is everyone staying in the same place? Aren't you worried that maybe the Order might find out where you are? I mean, Sonia found out where you were. Anyone can find you.
Jonas: Yeah. I know, I know. That's a-that's a-I mean, great point. That's something I've thought a lot, especially recently. Um, and I'm thinking about talking to the doctor about it. Um, Dr. Hart--you know, I think that... I don't know. I think that... I-how do I put this? We've got something in the works right now. Something that we're planning. And I can't really talk about it yet. Um, but I think you're right. I think-I think you're absolutely right. We should-we should probably think about splitting up and maybe going underground for a while. You know?
Jonas: 'Cause it's just too dangerous to stay. I mean, we have to learn from the past. Right?
EricaRocks: Right. And the runnings aren't always fun. (Laughs.)
Jonas: What's that?
EricaRocks: The running's not always the fun thing.
Jonas: No, I know. It's not, but sometimes, I guess, it's necessary.
EricaRocks: But, maybe, you know, just moving around a little.
Jonas: Yeah. I wish we could just find a permanent place to hide where they wouldn't find us. You know? It'd make things easier.
Broken Kid: I think to that point, too, harmony had a question about, you know, your guys' biggest concern.
Jonas: What-what's our biggest--?
harmony99: Yeah. Basically I'm just wondering, like, what do you think is pretty much your biggest threat when it comes down to the Order, or in that regard. Also, what's your biggest opportunity to get to them. Like, what's their weakest point and what's their biggest threat to you, as well?
Jonas: Well, yeah. Uh, I-I think the thing that's most important to me and the thing I'm most worried about is-is Emma. You know? She's family. Um, and now-especially now, because she's gonna stay trait positive. They could-they could really come after her at any time. Um, so, that makes me nervous. Uh, so that's always going to be my number one, uh, thing is just to keep her safe. Um...
harmony99: For sure.
Jonas: But, in terms of the big picture, I mean, if that's what you're talking about: the big picture--the Order. I think, me personally, and, correct me, I mean, if you don't agree with this-- this why we're here; tell me. But, I think that any time the Order has a public face, we should smear dirt on it. You know what I'm saying?
Jonas: Like Verdus, like the Lullaby Project. All these-all these-these fronts that they have. Um, because they're operating in-in total secret. Nobody knows about them; nobody believes that they're controlling things except for us, which is frustrating. You know? I mean, it's so obvious why--nobody believes us. Which is why I think that we should stay focused on-on taking those people down right now. The Lullaby Project, Verdus. You know, hit them where it hurts. That's-that's it.
harmony99: Yeah. The thing is, though, is it's, like, one big organization with three different faces and, I mean, you have to concentrate your efforts on one thing at a time if you smear dirt on each one you're not going to be as effective as if you try to shut one thing and it-you try to shut one thing down at a time, right? So, in that sense what is their weakest point? Is it Verdus? Is it the Wyman foundation, or Hymn of One, or the Lullaby Project in specific?
Jonas: I personally think the Lullaby Project and Verdus. I think that's their weak point right now.
Jonas: And I that's who I want to go after.
Jonas: And I wish I could say more right now. But, um, but...
harmony99: You got something. (Laughs.)
Jonas: Yeah. I-I think so. So, um, I really think that's their weak point. And, if we can bring one of those down-I think it's like the mother ship going down, you know? Everything just starts to crumble.
Jonas: You know?
Jonas: We just figure out who is right; we just go after one. We just focus our energy on one thing. It feels like-it feels like we're so pulled in so many different directions. You know? All these girls that are out there. Trait positive, trait negative, all these companies. It's overwhelming sometimes. You know?
Jonas: You're absolutely right. Just go after one.
harmony99: Cool. So, I guess--
Broken Kid: You know, I think-I think--
Jonas: Yeah, well--
harmony99: It's alright. I'm just saying, while you--
Broken Kid: Go ahead.
harmony99: Well, we're gonna have to focus more on trying to find more weaknesses for them. Because, as of yet, there hasn't been really anything that I can pinpoint saying, "Well, you know, this is somewhere we can infiltrate." You know what I mean?
Jonas: I couldn't hear that. I'm sorry.
harmony99: Oh, sorry! Is the mic breaking up or something? Or...?
Jonas: No, you're fine now. I think it was just my phone maybe.
harmony99: Uh, alright. Cool. I was just saying that so far we haven't really found a weakness for the Lullaby Project, I mean, that we can pinpoint to and say "Well, you know, this is where we can infiltrate." And it seems like we need to do research more and find a way to get in and get some more info. Whether Sarah can do that or not. Sort of remains to be seen.
Jonas: Well, yeah. The Sarah thing is a big concern. Um, but I feel like...I feel like we have some things in the works that I can't really, uh, I can't really say right now, because it's not firmed up. But I feel like I see a crack in the wall. Uh, I'm ready to start throwing some rocks, trust me.
harmony99: Uh, okay. Thank you.
Broken Kid: Uh, I think that, uh, HeartofSorrow wanted to, uh, talk to you a little bit about your, uh, techniques of your-your stealth and infiltrations.
(Laughter is heard.)
Jonas: Oh, boy. Yeah, my skills, huh?
HeartofSorrow: Well, it's more--more like, uh...when you all went to go after Emma when, uh, the--those, um, LaRezisto people, uh, had her; it's like...you guys were staying out too much in the open. I mean, from the video that I saw, before y'all were able to get out, it was like there was a glass window that-that you could see in the kitchen and...
HeartofSorrow: It was like, right there, and anybody that passed by--and y'all would've been seen and when y'all went into the foyer, it--it was like, one whole--like, one, two sides of it had glass windows seeing right into it and y'all are basically out in the open. And I was thinking, like, "Darn, guys, you gotta...get out of sight. 'Cause if-- uh, they see you, they're gonna come after you. And--
Jonas: I know, man. I know, you're absolutely right.
HeartofSorrow: Right. It's like, uh, I hate to use a video game analogy but...uh, if you're playing maybe Grand Thef--
Jonas: I've got to be honest with you, I'm not a...you know, I'm not a spy, you know I never...uh, planned on any of this, you know. And it's frustrating-- you're right, you are so right, man. Uh, I haven't been very good at this stuff. Uh, the-the stealth, the hiding. We're still-- In fact, I'm gonna be honest, I've been kinda stupid in the past. Um...but I'm learning as I go, man, you know, I'm learning as I go and I'm-I'm really-- you know, help us out when you can, you know...when--on the forum, or any time you see us doing something stupid try to bring it to our attention as soon as you can because, uh--yeah. And not that I'm not learning, what I'm doing, you know I feel like we're-we're making progress, you know...Right? Are we--or are we just as bad as we always were?
(Laughter is heard.)
HeartofSorrow: Well, you are getting better, 'cause, uh... (Laughs.) no one got hurt, uh, hurt this time.
Jonas: Yeah, that's true.
Caalan: Hey, Jonas, this is caalan, I just wanted to make a real quick comment about that. I mean, for us it's real easy to sit back and say, "These are all the things you did wrong," but we're not doin' it. But, the one thing I've noticed that would definitely point out is: you need a getaway driver or a lookout. That way someone who's always there, who's got their phone, they can give you a call and say, "Hey, get outta there." Just 'cause there's been a few instances where you didn't really have one.
Caalan: And other than that, I mean, it's real easy for us to sit here safe at home and say, "Oh, you shouldn't have done that," but you know, you're the one doin' it.
Jonas: Yeah. No, I know, that's like I'm talking about with learning our lessons. Uh, we did that at Verdus. I think we're-- and it's a technique we're gonna start using. You're right, I don't know why I didn't think of it before. I mean, I've seen bank robbery movies like everybody else. (Laughs.) You know, you always have a lookout; you always have a driver. But some things you don't think about when you're actually doing it. You know? I-it's so--it's hard to explain. Um... But you're right. You know, what'd it take me? Like six months, a year, to learn these-these things? But yeah., a getaway driver or a lookout. And the other problem we have is that we don't have a lot of people on our team, either. You know, I mean... We-we have a certain amount--Daniel and I are usually the core and, uh, and-and we're starting to get bigger, but, um, we need a lot more people. And-and none of us are trained, either. And god knows Sarah gets distracted really easily, but...
(Laughter is heard.)
Caalan: Yeah. Uh-uh, that was a--
Chippercat: Yeah, but she makes a heck of a birdhouse.
Jonas: What's that?
Caalan: A blower.
(Laughter is heard.)
HeartofSorrow: Well, and th-
Chippercat: And, Jonas, you and Daniel, whatever you're doing, you always look really good doing it.
Jonas: (Laughs.) Thank you.
Chippercat: You're welcome.
HeartofSorrow: Well, uh, Jonas, that's what--that was another--you know, I was talking to Broken Kid about, uh, through the PMs, was, like... We're-we're more--We're more than willing and able to come out there and, if y'all just need us to go into a place, check it out or something--
Jonas: Definitely, man, you know--
HeartofSorrow: We-we'll gladly do it.
Jonas: We might take you up on that. The thing is, I feel like I've involved enough people; enough people have gotten hurt. I don't--I don't want anybody else to get hurt because of me; because of this thing. So, um, I appreciate that, man, and you better believe that, if I needed it, I'd call you. And these people who are on here right now - the twelve - I mean, you guys know. They're--You're the trusted. And, uh, if we can, man, we'll use you, but I-I just don't think I could live with myself if anything happens to anybody else out there because of this. You know?
Broken Kid: You know, I think that that leads really well into, uh, what Hammy was gonna ask about, you know, the fans, too. Like us.
hamovbala4ever89: Yeah. Hi, Jonas.
hamovbala4ever89: Okay. So my question is I know you guys are in deep problems - you guys have your troubles, and like you just said you, don't want to get others involved. But, here's the thing: we are watching your videos and we do care. So what is it--something we ourselves can do at this moment from actually--where we are right now, sitting at home--What is it that we can do to help you guys? Either fight the Order, or identify the trait positive girls, or, I don't know, whatever you need us to do. What exactly can we do?
Jonas: I appreciate that. The best I know is, like, what we're doing right now. Like, this right here. I need your ideas, I need new--we need new blood, you know? We need new brains on this. The more brains we can put on the problem, I think the better we are. So if we can get connected through the forum, through talking on the phone like this... Um, we're just--we're running out of ideas, you know? I mean, not ideas, but... (Sighs.) We've tried so many things and so many things have backfired. Uh... And, again, I don't want to put anybody in danger, so I think the safest thing is communication like we're doing. I think that's the key: it's the key to relationships, it's--the key to solving this problem is communication. Um, so if you guys can--if you see anything that's funny or get any kind of idea, hop on the forum, hop on chat and let us know. I mean, that's... I mean, d--I don't know. I don't know what else to do without involving anybody to the point where they could get hurt.
hamovbala4ever89: Yeah, well, I don't mean where we physically get in danger, but is there--I don't know. Is there anything we can crack online, or is there anything we can do? Through the web site or anything?
Jonas: I see, I see. Um... Well, I don't know. See, it's tricky. It's a tricky thing because the Order can see our videos and, um, some of the stuff we post in the forum, so... I don't know. As far as that goes, a lot of times we can't tell you guys what-what we're up to, or what we need, or-or anything like that. Um... But we look for ways. I mean, we really do, and we're gonna look for ways in the future to include you guys more in a way where nobody gets hurt, but we can--we can do this thing. You know what I mean?
hamovbala4ever89: Exactly. Just like today, and just like the PMs that we received, and how this actually was all brought together. I mean, because I think it was very well planned and I don't think that any of us are in danger right now.
Jonas: Yeah. No, exactly.
hamovbala4ever89: Let me go check the door. (Laughs.)
(Laughter is heard.)
hamovbala4ever89: I should go check that door.
Jonas: Yeah, better lock it. Seriously. I mean, it's-it's not even funny. It--I... You know?
hamovbala4ever89: Yeah. Yeah. No, I completely understand.
Jonas: Yeah. So I appreciate you guys, I mean, sticking your--you are sticking your necks out. And I appreciate it. And I hope everybody--
Broken Kid: To go, uh--Just to go on to a couple other things that people wanted to ask about...
Broken Kid: Uh, I know Jafin wanted to, uh, to ask you about the Verdus site.
Jafin: Yeah. Hey, man. Um, I was looking at the, uh, you know, the Verdus site, and it's got that, you know, that administrator login, it's got that client login, you know? Um, I know Dr. Hart's password, uh, no longer works or anything, but, uh, there's gotta be something there that we can use. So, you know, I was wondering, you know, do we have any information about how to get in there? Um... you know, d--
Jonas: I agree. I agree. And that--uh, that's what-that's what I said, that's what Daniel said, but, uh, apparently they've shut off Dr. Hart's access. Um... (Sighs.) And he says that they can post all kinds of things there, you know, like, they post inter-office memos, research findings, I guess... Um, but right now--right now we're just--we're trying to figure out how else we might be able to get on there. Um, and, again, and this is where you guys come in, if anybody has an idea how to crack this thing, how to get through, uh, we'd love to know. Uh, you know, Daniel's our cracker, but, um, so far we've come up empty.
Jafin: Well, have you, um--you know, like, typically companies have--you know, there's a particular pattern that they have for, you know, usernames, and it would be, like, a first initial and then last names, or--you know, something like that. You know, is there--do you know if there is something, um, along those lines that Verdus uses or are they kind of crazy and do weird stuff? (Laughs.)
Jonas: Yeah. So far, man, it's like high, high-end security. We've got Taylor--we even--we got Taylor on it, and she hasn't even been able to crack it, um, and get those things that you're looking for--that-that we're looking for. I don't... A-and you know, that's a red flag for me, right? I mean this, what, is a pharmaceutical company? Why is their system so complicated? I mean, you know, and this is the obvious stuff that I see, you see, but we can't seem to get anybody else to notice.
Jonas: You know?
Jafin: Yeah, I know we were talking about, you know, specific places that we can, you know, get in to the Order, you know, take 'em down; give 'em dirt. If we can get in there, there's info. If we can get in there. But...
Jonas: That would be huge, man. That would be huge. And I-And I--like I said, like, we're focusing on the Lullaby right now, just to follow up. And I think that if we can get inside there, that's gonna give answers that will lead us inside Verdus, as well.
Jonas: Like, one falls--the mothership goes, they all go.
Jonas: Like Independence Day.
(Laughing is heard.)
Jafin: We have info on, like, where we can find info on the Lullaby Project at all? Like a website or anything?
Jonas: Um... I don't--I don't know of a website. I'm gonna have to ask--Daniel knows a lot of that stuff. Um, and I--if he has it I'll post it on the forum.
Jafin: Okay. Cool.
Broken Kid: So I know also...
Jonas: They really are like the under-the-radar type of organization.
Broken Kid: Sorry about that. I know also, uh, Chershaytoute - or Diane, uh, has a question that a lot of people had about, uh, about Sonia.
Jonas: Oh, yeah.
Chershaytoute: You haven't heard it yet, BK. Um, well, in the first place, I--you know, I'm a mom. The--I--the Order and bringing down the Order, that's important, but, uh, there have been a lot of people on the forums who have been asking about Sonia and whether you hear from her. Um, what about the baby? I mean--
Jonas: Uh, you were--you were breaking up. You sa--you--I heard everything but the last thing you said. Sonia and, uh...
Chershaytoute: The baby.
Jonas: Oh, the baby. Yeah, the baby. You know... (Laughs.) Yeah, that was, yeah, everyone's concerned about the baby. You know what? Uh, I think somebody actually asked me that on the forum the other day. Um, and I don't--to be honest, I don't know where Sonia is. She kind of lost it after that--everything that went down with the baby. Um...
Chershaytoute: Well, that was pretty scary that day.
Jonas: Yeah. No, I know. Um, and I guess, I mean, it's like me--if it were me, I would take off and try to figure things out. And I think that's what she did, especially being a woman. Um...
Chershaytoute: Well... W-What?
Jonas: You know, well, the-- That's more of the nurturing type of a-- I-I don't know. You know? I-I think of women as mothers and more nurturing. Um--
Chershaytoute: Okay. You-you saved yourself on that one.
Jonas: Yeah. (Laughs.) Well, I don't know.
Chershaytoute: But you don't hear from her or anything, though?
Jonas: I d--I don't hear from her. Um, but I-I got the feeling from her that she was kind of in a situation where things were falling apart, anyway, for her, and that probably tipped her over the scale. And, you know, like, you lose your faith in something, it takes--it takes a long time to recover. Um, but you know what, though? I--I don't know her background; I don't think she's got the baby 'cause, you know, she knows that the Order would be able to find her a lot easier than the baby.
Chershaytoute: Yeah. (Laughs.)
Jonas: So, I don't think-- To answer your question, I-I don't know for a fact, but I don't think she has the baby. And, as far as I know, she's long gone.
Broken Kid: But I think we got P.MONKEYgetsFUNKY on, uh, after her. What she was going to ask about, so, uh, she PMed me and said she wanted to ask about Emma?
P.MONKEYgetsFUNKY: Hi. Uh, I would like to know what's going on with her homeschooling stuff and who's teaching her, exactly?
Jonas: Yeah. Um, well if you can believe it, we're all playing kind of teacher over here. Uh, but we're having fun. We're trying to make learning fun for her. Uh, but Emma--
(unknown): That's impossible!
Jonas: What's that?
(unknown): I just said that's impossible. Sorry, go on. (Laughs.)
Chershaytoute: Oh, honest it's possible. I homeschooled my son through high school. It's possible to do.
Jonas: Yeah, you can make it fun. I mean, we're--I think that's the key to learning, too. I never liked school because I always felt boxed in and trapped, but we're trying to take it in the opposite direction and having fun with it. Um, the only problem is that it's me, not them, that's kind of having--uh, I think she's going through a difficult period, obviously; I mean, for obvious reasons. And, uh, you know, sometimes she's her normal self and other times she gets a little snippy, especially with me. Um... Which hurts, but I understand, you know? And especially at that age. She's a big girl.
P.MONKEYgetsFUNKY: What's she learning right now?
Jonas: I didn't have any sisters, but, um, I know how it is, and, uh... But we-we're--you know, we're making studying fun, and we're making a game with it. Dr. Hart and Daniel help a lot and--especially Dr. Hart; he's been teaching her to, you know, to try and learn as much as she--
P.MONKEYgetsFUNKY: Uh, what's she learning right now?
Jonas: Oh, you know, the typical fourteen-year-old stuff, like biology--fifteen--you know, biology, which I know nothing about. (Laughs.) And then English, and she's reading some books. She's reading, um, Catch 22 right now. And a little Spanish, but she's not very good.
Chershaytoute: Better than Jules was...
Jonas: What's that?
Chershaytoute: She's got to be better than Jules was.
Jonas: Yeah. For sure.
Chershaytoute: That girl's Spanish was terrible.
Broken Kid: So did, uh, did Mowse ever join us?
Mowse: I'm here. Can you hear me?
Broken Kid: Oh, you're here! Yeah, we can hear you.
Mowse: Yeah, I'm here.
Broken Kid: Oh, welcome.
Mowse: Yeah, great.
Broken Kid: Hey, you wanted to ask about, um, about how Dr. Hart's sure that Emma's a trait positive.
Mowse: Well, not just whether he was sure she's trait positive, but he said--are you still there?
Broken Kid: Yeah.
Mowse: Sorry. Whether... okay, whether or not, um, she was a natural trait positive, as opposed to being genetically altered. Um, and I know that, uh, her age for one, because they figured she wasn't genetically altered in the womb, but, um, there has been doctors - in fact, it was Dr. Griffin - um, who has genetically altering young girls, um, with a serum. And is it possible that the same thing could have happened to her?
Jonas: Yeah. No, um, good question, good question. And actually that was brought to my attention the other day a-about this Dr. Griffin guy. Um, and so I got in touch with--I think someone before was mentioning Charlie. Um, I've actually--I've actually talked with her. Um, and she checked--she checked, uh, out this list and, apparently, Emma's name isn't on it. Um, so that's a good si--
Mowse: But is it t-- I-I wonder, though, if it's not possible that, um, another doctor outside of London, like, closer to where Emma is, um, might have got hold of that same serum. Um, just because that list exists, um, doesn't mean that every girl that it's ever happened to, um, has been--has been discovered.
Jonas: No, I know. I agree with--
Mowse: So I'm just wondering--
Jonas: I agree, too. Lists are--especially with the Order, they can doctor and change and manipulate anything. Um, so I agree with you a hundred percent. But the o--the o--the other thing - and this is the real nail in the coffin - is, um, uh, when Emma went to Verdus with, uh, with Doc Hart, he was able to confirm that she was, uh, a natural trait positive by some test he ran. Um, and I--and I'm taking his word for it, so I don't know exactly how he did that. (Laughs.) Again, I'm not good with the science, but, um, he told us that he ran tests and that she's a natural trait positive, and I just gotta take his word for it.
Mowse: Oh, okay. Oh, okay. Well, that's good to hear that there was an actual scientific test. I didn't know if they were just basing it on how old she was and not being on the list, but that's really comforting to know.
Jonas: Yeah, I-I agree. 'Cause the list didn't mean anything to me, either, I mean, that's--what's a list, right? I mean, anybody can go in and change it.
Jonas: Or it's a ripoff, just like you said, or another doctor could have the serum, or anything. There's, like, a thousand things that could have happened. But, as far as we know, and trusting Doc Hart the way we are, she's okay.
Broken Kid: That actually--
Mowse: Well, that's good. 'Cause that's pretty important.
Broken Kid: That actually leads into, uh, livelovelaugh's question, I think, too, about Emma.
livelovelaugh: Um, h-hello?
livelovelaugh: Yeah, hi. Um... Um, yeah. My question was basically already answered. My question was that, since Emma's not taking the serum anymore, she's basically trait positive now, right?
Jonas: Yeah, that's right. That's the real, key thing that--I mean, the chance to take--yeah, I--
livelovelaugh: Yeah, th--
livelovelaugh: Yeah, I was gonna say that you guys should really just move somewhere already now, 'cause you guys have been--have been there for a few months already and you never know.
Jonas: No, I agree with you. I agree. And I think that's something we're gonna talk about. Uh, like I said before--
caalan21: There's always the bunker.
Jonas: (Laughs.) Yeah, no. I'm not going back to the bunker. (Everyone laughs.) Those were some hard times. Um, but we are gonna--we are--I think we're gonna look for something possibly. Like I said before, I can't--I wish I could say more, but, um, I can't, but it is a conversation we've had and-and are gonna have more of. And I think it's time to go possibly underground.
livelovelaugh: Uh, okay. One more thing I wanted to ask was, um, if you could ask Dr. Hart if he's ever heard of...Michelle Clore, I think? Can anybody help me?
Jonas: Michelle Clore? How do you spell that?
Mowse: Oh, yeah, that's right.
livelovelaugh: Uh, yeah. If he's ever heard of Michelle Clore.
Jonas: Okay. How do you spell that? Do you know?
Broken Kid: "C-L-O-R-E."
Mowse: I think it's "C-L-O-R-E."
Jonas: Okay. Clore. Okay.
Mowse: She's, uh, she's a painter--or is she an artist?
Jonas: Okay. I'll ask him. Why is that?
livelovelaugh: Because, supposedly, she's also an Elder, and she's, uh--this is connected to the things that are happening in the UK.
livelovelaugh: So, supposedly, she's an Elder.
Jonas: Well, that's good--that's good stuff we need to know. thank you for, uh... I'll ask Dr. Hart. Thank you for that.
livelovelaugh: You're welcome.
Broken Kid: So, um... one of the people that I don't think is here--she was, uh, not doing too well, I guess, wasn't feeling well or something--um, she was gonna ask about Sarah and I thought somebody in the chat, uh, asking about Sarah, too, and, you know, are you guys concerned about her being with the Lullaby Project right now?
Jonas: Yeah. Um, I am. I mean, it-it--definitely concerned. Um, it-it's disturbing. Um, and-and it--I've seen her past videos and it freaks me out. A-and she's one of the last people I would have thought that would have gotten sucked into this thing. Um, but here's what--why I'm not overly concerned, is because I was down there and I, you know, I felt her--saying that most of these people were just regular--well...regular--they're weirdos, but... (Laughs.) But they're regular weirdos. Um, they're not dangerous. Some are Hymn of One; in fact most are Hymn of One, uh, people who are hearing their inner song as we speak. Um... If you go for that. Uh, which I don't.
Mowse: So you don't think she's in any physical danger, but-but what about her, like, psychological state?
Jonas: Yeah. You know--well, I didn't really think about that, but you're right. I mean, that's a worry. That's a worry, 'cause, I mean... the thing is we've all seen stuff, since-since everything has happened that, psychologically, isn't easy to handle. Um, but--
Mowse: Well, I mean, think about Doc--
Jonas: Think about what?
Mowse: Sorry, Jonas.
Jonas: No, go ahead.
Mowse: I didn't mean to in-interrupt you, sorry about that. Uh, I was just saying, you know, think about Dr. Hart and the demons he carries around. Those will be Sarah's demons if she's in some way, even remotely, involved in-in something that could be endangering the lives of these--of these women's babies.
Jonas: No, I know. Uh, y-you're absolutely right. Um, and-and it is a concern, but she knows we're always gonna be here for her. Dr. Hart will be there for her, um, when that time comes. Th-...the be--I think the main thing here is that, what I'm talking about is-is in fact from trying to help Sarah. Um, the way we can help her the most is-is by, uh, is by taking down the Lullaby Project to begin--to begin with ending it. Shutting the whole thing down. Um, I think that-that's the only thing that's gonna help her. You know, to know that she was a part of that. And when she comes out of there, at least she'll know that she was a part of ta--of stopping these people. You know? I mean, that's never gonna--I'm sure there's gonna be nights where she's gonna think about it, but, uh, overall I think she can walk away saying, you know, "W-we did something. We made a difference. We stopped these people. It could have gone on for years." And even though she's struggling right now, I think she's a strong person, and I don't think--she's gonna come out of this. I mean, i-if we could, we'd go grab her right now. You know? Um, the fact is that we don't know where--th-they moved the camp, and so we don't know exactly where they are. Daniel's been trying to find her, find this camp, um, but unfortunately we just don't know. Uh, and-and we're in the middle of something else, too, that I can't really talk about, but, um... Well, I'll always--I'll always be here for her, and so will Daniel and, um, you know? It's gonna be tough for her.
Mowse: Yeah, well, I trust that. Yeah, I trust that you will be.
Broken Kid: So I think the, uh, the next one was one that I was really curious about, too, uh, caalan had a question about Bree's email.
Jonas: Oh, yeah.
caalan21: How're you doing, Jonas?
Jonas: Hey, what's going on?
caalan21: Not a whole lot over here. Hey, listen, um, I mean, you mentioned I mean you mentioned to major points that you have, obviously: you want to keep Emma safe and get her to destroy the Order's public image in their-their arms stretched out, like Project Lullaby. But you're really not going to be able to do this unless you have intel to help you do so, right? So keeping-- I said you're going to need intel to be able to do that, right?
Jonas: Yeah. Well, yeah, we do.
caalan21: So keeping Sarah in play with Project Lullaby's, you know, cool for right now. You've got an inside guy. But what I was wondering is, when Bree sent that email, she said it would answer everything. She said it had a lot of information in it. And I'm wondering if, maybe, she caught wind of Project Lullaby or she'd caught wind of...you know, these--the altered girls. And I know that, you know, Daniel got rid of the message, which wasn't necessarily the greatest move, but, you know-- So... Yeah, so my-my biggest question was what can we do about getting it back? Is there a possibility for you guys going back to LaRezisto's base of operations? Either, you know, obviously the big manor-style house where you played as a kid, or maybe even back to where Claire was hiding out? Maybe she hid the hard drive or her computer to be found somewhere, trying to get a copy of that email or some information from it?
Jonas: You know, as far as I know, uh, unfortunately, man, i-it's gone. Uh, we-we've exhausted just about every avenue that we know of--some of the things we've just mentioned. Um, we don't have access to any of those things. Un--i-it's just-it's gone. LaRezisto was Claire, uh, and the rogue-rogue Elder, and, uh... we just don't have any of their stuff, man. It's frustrating because, uh, you could be right. They could have been alluding the the Lullaby Project. Um, they could have been alluding to a lot of things, uh, that we'll just never know, unfortunately. And, uh, Daniel regrets it--deleting it, too, but you can't really blame the guy: it was a panicked situation. Um, we're not cops or, like, army guys, you know? I mean, under pressure you do stupid things. Um...
caalan21: Well definitely. And a bad decision now's better than no decision later, so... I mean, no one's saying he did anything wrong. But I was just thinking if there was any way to try go back into the facility to try and maybe look and see if you can find a computer, a hard drive, a flash drive... anything they may have left behind.
Jonas: You're talking about the mansion? You're talking about, um, where-where else could we go?
caalan21: Uh, the mansion itself, and then also that little hideout where you and, uh, Emma met up with Claire originally? I mean, she was safe in there, maybe there's a possibility...
Jonas: Well, there's--I-I'll tell you there's nothing at that hideout. The hideout that--where we met Claire, I mean, it was--nothing. I don't know if you remember the video and the--I-I don't think it did it justice, but this place was just literally a bunch of abandoned buildings. A-and I looked through just about everything there. Uh, i-it definitely won't be there, but you could be right about the mansion, but, I mean, it's so huge, you know? I don't know where, uh, I'd ever find--
(Beeping is heard.)
Virgil: Jonas. It's Virgil.
Jonas: Hello? Who?
Virgil: Jonas, it's Virgil. The Watcher
Jonas: Virgil the Wa--? Wha-? Whoah. Hello?
Virgil: You're the one who should be watching out. Santa has a present for you. Check your stocking on Christmas Day. (Hangs up.)
Jonas: How did he-- How did he get on this call? Broken Kid, how did he get on this call?
Mowse: I don't--
Broken Kid: I don't know.
Chershaytoute: Well, he would have had to have an access--
Broken Kid: Yeah. Only the people on this call that I PMed had the access code.
Jonas: Wait a minute, wait a minute...
JustAnotherLonelyGirl: I wasn't me! (Laughs.)
Jonas: It was one of my friends? Is that what you're saying? Broken Kid, it was one of my friends?
hamovbala4ever89: I had to actually check my door!
(Everyone laughs over Jonas, who is attempting to speak with Broken Kid.)
Chershaytoute: My children know that I would never risk them or anybody else.
Jonas: Listen, I have to go. I have to go. I'm sorry.
HeartofSorrow: Whoah, whoah--what?
(Everyone says goodbye to Jonas.)
Broken Kid: I j--I, uh, I think he disc--he disconnected already. I don't know what happened there, but he, uh--
livelovelaugh: Dammit, that's so--! Dammit.
HeartofSorrow: Knowing Virgil, he probably, uh, had, uh, had, uh, had us--one of our--had some people's, uh, uh, mess--inboxes or message systems, uh, hacked to (Beep.) alert him.
Jafin: Oh my goodness.
caalan21: Didn't you say that you sent one of those, uh, PMs to the wrong address, BK?
HeartofSorrow: Yeah. Yeah, P.MONKEYgetsFUNKY.
P.MONKEYgetsFUNKY: I'm sure it wasn't Broken Kid's fault, guys. (Laughs.)
Jafin: Oh, no.
caalan21: No, it just means he was watching us. He'll--had one or all of us hacked. Like in the way he was--active, he might give--a chance to be involved.
Broken Kid: Okay, sorry, guys, I got--I got dropped out, but I think, uh, I think Jonas has left, so... (Everyone agrees.) I think that's about it, then.
Chershaytoute: That's about it, then.
Broken Kid: Uh, if you guys wanna go--If you guys wanna go into chat, anybody who's listening, go into the chat room, and, uh, talk about it. 'Cause that's what--everybody else on chat's talking about it, so...
Mowse: I missed the start of the call. When will the recording be up?
Broken Kid: Uh, the recording should be up soon. Probably tomorrow.
HeartofSorrow: Yeah, and, uh, I'm gonna send a message to Jonas, 'cause, uh, I just had a thought about a particular thing that I remember from one of Nikki B.'s, uh, videos, so maybe--
caalan21: Well don't say it out loud. We know that we've already been hacked once; I mean, you don't know who else is listening.
Broken Kid: Yeah. Yeah, send him a message or, uh, you know, go onto chat. 'Cause he'll definitely be checking for messages.
Caller: Yeah. We'll check it.
Broken Kid: Alright, thanks a lot, guys. Thanks a lot. Bye-bye.
(Everyone says goodbye and leaves.)
- The conference call had the ability to handle 150 callers. Thirteen callers were picked in advance by Jonas to be able to speak on the conference call, to avoid complete pandemonium. It is not known whether one of those thirteen callers betrayed Jonas and gave their calling information to Virgil.
- The 13 callers were: