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New Jonas Picture?

Crazy! I love it! I provided an option for a new photo for Jonas on the main page discussion, but it seems like it would be more useful on this page now.--jeans

Tada!--jeans Reposted from July 11
Actually, the consensus from before was a yes, and I think he looks darn good there too, so um, if no one objects by say, tommorow, why don't I change the pic? :) --Zoey 18:28, 15 July 2007 (CDT)
I'm a fan of the latest pic of Jonas (now that its clearer), but I won't really mind if it was changed. I do wonder though -- is there the chance we could that the names of the characters can be placed to the left of their respective picture, with the lettering going up-to-down?? Then maybe the pics won't look so broken up . . . Anyways, great job to everyone who helped with the remodeling!--Pheon 21:28, 15 July 2007 (CDT)
Really Pheon?? That was actually one of my favorite parts of the design! I felt like each character had their own little "pedistol" if you will. Kind of said, "look at me. I am important." Haha, I don't know, I guess we could see what other people think, but like I said, this is one of my favorite parts of the design atm! :o --Zoey 02:14, 16 July 2007 (CDT)

[EDIT] I did some mockups to see how it would look, and ugh, it came out bad. I mean, I can try to redo them if you want (I didn't save), but meh. Like I said.. character... pedastol... yay! xP. --Zoey 02:14, 16 July 2007 (CDT)

Well, I'm not an expert of wiki-codes, so if you said the attempt turned out bad, then it probably did. Eh, it's sorta growing on me . . . :P --Pheon 14:46, 16 July 2007 (CDT)

I like this pic, but it doesn't match well with the others. I would be in favor of updating the other pics with ones that look better with this pic, but until then I think we should leave the one thats up there now. -misty 02:34, 16 July 2007 (CDT)

I edited the Portal with this pic and previewed it and I think it looks great with the others. We should change it! Nancypants


If spencer is on the portal for main characters, then shouldn't he be on the character template as a main character..--Houdini(talk | contribs)

However, isn't he only going to be a main character for two months?--jeans

I agree. If he's only here for two months, we can always remove him. I say, once a character has posted a blog that ends up on the main LG15 site, it is fair to consider them a "main blogging character". I'd also move him up on the Characters page as well. --Zoey 18:52, 16 July 2007 (CDT)


Seriously, where are they? The last couple of videos just straight up don't have them, and they don't seem to be on the KMPortal either. Is this just lack of time, or are we changing that idea around? If it's lack of time, I'll do it myself... I just wanted to make sure. --Chartreuse 17:53, 26 July 2007 (CDT)

I thought the same thing too, until I realized that something's up with downloading pics. If you see some of the latest vids like Mission Possible & Proceed with Caution pictures are downloaded, but the only thing that shows up is, 'Incomplete GD library configuration: missing function imagecreatefromjpeg' . Anyone know how to fix this?? --Pheon 18:24, 26 July 2007 (CDT)
Yeah, that thing is pretty frustrating. :/ --jeans
Well, it's fixed now! Big thanks whoever did it!! --jeans


This is gonna sound egotistical or whatever that is you think we should put the missions page on this portal. I know me and silver made it, but it is a big part of the series. Well everyone decides.--Houdini 22:12, 29 July 2007 (CDT)


OpAphid is no longer part of lg, by direction of Zoey we are to post OpAphid videos in maddison's section only. Please stop posting it here. TY --Bxman 00:06, 10 August 2007 (CDT)


Someone tell me how to put a video up!?


Is there anyway we can maybe move Bree on the main page to a heading saying, "Deceased" or something? She's not going to be posting anymore videos, sadly... and I think here pretty soon we're going to need to remove or move Spencer... and honestly, maybe even add Emma. I know right now we're in a transition, but Bree IS something that can be taken care of. Just a suggestion. 01:28, 5 September 2007 (CDT)Greenie

I don't think a "deceased" category is necessary. Those who do watch the series know Bree is dead, and those who newly come to it don't want to be spoiled right on the portal. As for removing/adding people, so far, Spencer is credited with 22 appearances, while Emma is credited with 3 - while I agree with you that Spencer should be removed if he doesn't take part in the series anymore, I think we should at least wait with the switch until Emma has made at least something like 10 appearances - just to be sure she's not just some kind of guest character that's gonna be dropped the day after tomorrow.
i think anybody who has used the internet in the past two months knows that bree is dead. there is no need to worry about spoiling anything. haha... - platy
And in the end, don't forget there is a petition running to bring Spencer back - who knows, maybe the Creators listen for once.
~ Renegade (talk | contribs) 05:30, 5 September 2007 (CDT)
I was thinking perhaps we should give Bree a "Deceased" heading of some form too, but I like your reasoning, Renegade. We don't want to spoil fans if we can help it. --Pheon 11:28, 5 September 2007 (CDT)
Renegade, I agree about the spoilers.... what about a non-active category or something? Bree still deserves to be main page... but she's just... not here anymore. Also, I was thinking that Emma needs to wait until she either does her own blog episode, or has been around for awhile. I'm going to the petition to sign it, because I really like Spencer... -Greenie 01:10, 7 September 2007 (CDT)

What if you simply made her picture gray instead of calling her deceased. Then she'll remain part of the cast picture, but is simply set apart. It also won't spoil anything. It may trigger that she is somehow different, but it won't make people automatically assume she's dead. Just a thought. -- Evergreen -- Sept. 15, '07 11:28 AM EST

I agree that there should be something done differently, like making her picture grey. I noticed the update on the main page. Now what about Emma? Also, Taylor hasn't been posting much. And now it seems Mallory has made a blog. I'd like to see if she makes any more blogs, and if she gets more involved in the fight against the Order. I think there might be a lot of updating to do soon, but I really feel Emma might be approaching main page, honestly. -Greenie205.243.71.71 13:23, 28 September 2007 (CDT)

I'm sorry, but I find the picture order a little strange on the main page. I see that it's "alphabetical", but... I dunno. I think a Jonas-Daniel-Emma-Sarah or Jonas-Daniel-Sarah-Emma order would make more sense, seeing as Jonas and Daniel seemed to have taken over as the co-main-main characters of the show. Also for Bree's picture, is there any way to make the picture black white and shades of gray? I dunno, just a thought. --FH14 11:38, 26 September 2007 (EST)

I also think the portal page are getting a bit outdated - 6 months has made a lot of difference in all the main character's appearance, no? And I agree that it might be time to add Emma to the portal page. -- Theresa 08:06, 30 September 2007 (CDT)
Seeing as Emma is now Missing/kidnapped, I'd hold off on her for a bit . . . and are we going to be seeing Taylor in a vid soon? I'm getting worried she may not come back! And as for pics, we may need to update them, but not any recent picture will do (it's going to take a lot to beat the Daniel one :P )--Pheon 21:58, 2 October 2007 (CDT)
I agree wholeheartedly that "Daniel in sombrero" is nearly impossible to beat! But I do think he looks great in this one: LG291Daniel cropped.jpg Though it is a WHOLE different Daniel... which was really kinda my point, that they've changed a lot, both in appearance and in their heads. -- Theresa 04:55, 4 October 2007 (CDT)

New Series Portal Images

Well, with all of the new logos... well now so new anymore... I believe it is past due for a little change. I made a portal image for LG15 first: LG15 Portal Splash Image.png
I want to get feedback before I make the KateModern image, because that will take a little more work and I don't want to waste my time. Feel free to comment, I personally don't like the way it ways "portal," and need help on what it should look like. Love, Randy (Say Wha'? | Whachu Doin'?) [Sept. 09, '07 - 4:05 PM, Central Daylight]

Honestly, this SHOULD be on the Main Page Discussion, since that's where this pic'll end up. But anyways, I think it looks good, and I would suggest having the "Portal" go diagonal-like like the rest of the logo, if possible. --Pheon 18:29, 9 September 2007 (CDT)
Oh, crap. I didn't even realize I put this here, ooops. Haha. Love, Randy (Say Wha'? | Whachu Doin'?) [Sept. 09, '07 - 8:22 PM, Central Daylight]


Sorry, I recently added Emma in the character section. I didn't think about having it approved...Der >.< I was gonna to, but I didn't so....My fault.

Erm, so....should we add Emma? I mean, she is the next trait positive girl.... --free2liv4evr 22:206, 27 September 2007

New Bree Portal Image

I know, I'm supposed to post something on the talk page. My bad. But the whole gray box thing just didn't sit quite right with me. The edits can be reversed if necessary, but I just think the graying of the picture might look better (Anyone who watches Big Brother knows what I'm talking about. In the house there is a wall with pictures of all the players. When a player is evicted, their picture turns black and white). --FH14 15:10, 28 September 2007 (EST)

I think the idea was that she would get both a black/white image AND a gray box... --Zoey 16:25, 28 September 2007 (CDT)

Okay, I'm going to be bold and suggest that Gemma and Spencer (who were once main characters in their own right) to be re-added to the front page under Bree's Format (it would look something like this. What does Everyone think? --FH14 00:34, 30 September 2007 (EST)

Yeah, I saw that, but I think I have to disagree. There are plenty of other formerly main characters who could go up there, and all you really do is open up a can of worms. Like why not Jules? Or Aunt Alex? Op/Tach/Bro? I could go on... I mean, I think Bree should still be up there because she IS lonelygirl15, but other than that, people can find the characters through the character pages. That's how I see it at least. What do other people think? (Oh and while I'm thinking of it, how do people feel about the shade of grey used for Bree's box right now? Too light? Too dark? Just right? Let me know! Thanks!) --Zoey 23:45, 29 September 2007 (CDT)
What if the box was a little bit more of a bluish gray? --Theresa 08:06, 30 September 2007 (CDT)

I think if Bree's staying, Gemma and Spencer should too. They're both main characters. Just because a main character dies halfway through a movie doesn't mean they shouldn't be at the top of the credits. If the part they HAD was huge, it shouldn't make a difference.

Exactly. Also, Zoey, I see your point about Jules, Alex, Tach/Bro/Op, etc. All Were supporting Characters more than anything. They were either only present for a few weeks, pop up about once a month, etc. (The only one who would have a strong case for a main character is Alex, but it's still stretching it a bit.) Gemma and Spencer posted several blogs and had a large impact and interaction with the plot during their times, and deserve credit. --FH14 15:04, 2 October 2007 (EST)
  1. The series is frickin' named after Bree.
  2. 250 episodes are a little more than Gemma's few side-vids or Spencer's half a dozen appearances.
It's just a major difference if you take a vanished supporting off the portal, or the namesake and series lead for 250 episodes.
Not to mention that greying out is already way too spoilertastic for my taste. Taking her off would majorly spoil newcomers.
There is a reason people are pissed about Bree's death - just like a lonelygirl15 series doesn't work without a lonelygirl15, a portal doesn't, either. You can't have a portal to Bree's series without her.
~ Renegade (talk | contribs) 15:10, 2 October 2007 (CDT)
Keep Bree until/unless the C's give us a new cast photo. It wouldn't be unusual for a new cast photo to come out each season for a TV show, and when it does, that's what you use. Old cast pics would then get relegated elsewhere. I'm no rush to excise bree from the portal. You know, Bree's eyes used to appear on EVERYP AGE of the original, it was quite freaky. --Milowent 15:38, 2 October 2007 (CDT)
For the record, we didn't even get a cast photo when we specifically and directly asked for one, multiple times, even after Amanda promised one.
~ Renegade (talk | contribs) 15:42, 2 October 2007 (CDT)
Which basically means Bree will on the page forever, until we find a new cast photo pop up in some magazine somewhere. Maybe if someone with graphics skills worked up a cartoon version of the current cast to use in the meantime, it might come sooner .  :-) --Milowent 16:15, 2 October 2007 (CDT)

I'm not quite understanding the whole "spoliers" reasoning. There's a message at the top of the Main Page that states that: All pages on this encyclopedia are written from an all-knowing point of view. If you have not seen all episodes of a series yet, and don't want to see SPOILERS, do not read further. I know how unbelieveably MAJOR Bree was. But Gemma and Spencer were on the Portal Page at one point to. Am I suggesting Gemma and Spencer fall under the same category of MAIN MAIN Character as Bree does. No. That honor belongs to only her, Daniel, and Jonas (and if the character continues at the pace she has: Sarah). But Keep in Mind that Gemma and Spencer had just as much imput and impact on the Story during their time as Bree did throughout the entire first Season. (BTW, I never suggested that Bree's picture be taken down in any way, shape, or form. I apologize if I came across that way.) --FH14 17:42, 2 October 2007 (EST)

There's a big difference between the text giving away information you don't want to know, and the page itself. If you want to, you can consciously not read the text of a page - but you can't not look at the page itself. If somebody just wanted to click through to Product placement, for example, he can do so without being spoiled by the episode descriptions simply by not reading them - but the fact that Bree is grey and not in the first position (or gone as a whole) is pretty frickin' obvious, and you can't ignore it - no matter if you've just seen My Fatal Mistake or First Blog.
~ Renegade (talk | contribs) 17:14, 2 October 2007 (CDT)
I agree with you, but Bree needs to be differentiated somehow, as she is a former character of the show. (BTW, her death has been advertised all over the internet, 99% of internet users probably know she's dead anyway; though I do agree the other 1% deserves to be able to find it out by watching the episode where she dies and not from here.) My best suggestion would be this - Make a more obvious and noticeable spoiler tag. Or maybe this: On a website for a book series I like, there are certain portions of the site that can only be accessed if you answer to the following statement: The following pages contain spoilers. These are to be read by those who have seen all Episodes of Lonelygirl15 (or KateModern, in regards to the other Portal). If you have not, you are entering at your own risk LEAVE, ENTER - or something like that? --FH14 18:30, 2 October 2007 (EST)

Current Main Characters??

I think it's pretty clear who the current main (blogging) characters are: That is, Daniel, Jonas, Sarah, Mallory, Emma. I think that the main page needs to reflect that (while please keeping grayed-out Bree). Yay or nay? ~ JBSHRYNE 01:02, 4 October 2007 (CDT)

Yay. Taylor should be taken off the list ... she's been gone for about a month now.

Agreed. Though maybe a different order? Jonas-Daniel-Sarah-Emma-Mallory? In Season One it was Bree as the Main Character with Jonas and Daniel as the two sidekicks. Now I'm getting the vibe that it's Jonas as the new main character with Daniel and Sarah as the two sidekicks. (And Bree should be on the front page too, of course.) --FH14 13:02, 4 October 2007 (EST)
I'm down with that order. The big challenge is finding "headshots" for Em and Mal, now.. ~ JBSHRYNE 13:07, 4 October 2007 (CDT)

Ach... sorry, I didn't see that this discussion was already going on up above. But seriously, I think it's time to change it... ~ JBSHRYNE 13:15, 4 October 2007 (CDT)

Actually, the discussion above is more focused on Bree's portal image, and how former main characters should be treated. --FH14 14:38, 4 October 2007

I am going to officially combine my reply to the above discussion and this one, simply because I am too lazy to type this out twice. I am strongly opposed to putting Gemma and Spencer (or any former character besides Bree) on the main page, simply because they are just that... "former" characters. There are plenty of other ways to find out about major former characters, including the Characters, the bottom indexes on many of the other character's pages, and the video pages themselves that the characters appear in. The only reason I think Bree is should stay is because she is lonelygirl15. She is not currently an active character.. CERTAINLY not an active blogging character.. so I don't think she should look the same as all the other characters. Hence the greying. I think, aside from setting her apart in a good way, it kind of shows that we're in "mourning" for her.. so to speak. Now, about switching the characters. After watching recently, I think I can agree that the characters should be: Daniel, Jonas, Sarah, Emma, Mallory, (Bree). Please make sure though, that as you get new images you keep all the character's heads a fairly consistant size. Consistancy = good :)

So can anyone get some pics of Emma and Mallory?

Opinions on new news design?

Hey everyone...the plain, lame news-design always bothered me, so I designed a new one today. Could you all tell me what you think of it, what might have to be improved, and, most importantly, if it negatively affects your loading times? Thanks.
Known problems:

  • Light initials are sometimes hard to read
  • Faction-/statusless videos have an extra line (easy fix, just have to discuss something with Z first)
~ Renegade (talk | contribs) 19:23, 8 October 2007 (CDT)
I love the concept, but ... the background colors - are they in relation to who's blogging? I can't say I'm a big fan of the yellow, but these are very minor things - I think the idea is terrific!! - Theresa 14:02, 9 October 2007 (CDT)
Thanks :)
Yellow: Newest vid.
Lighter grey: Even episode numbers.
Darker grey: Odd episode numbers.
Dark purple-ish grey: Videos with no "real" number, i.e. those containing letters.
Usually, this'd lead to the first one being yellow, and the other three having alternating row colors - it just looks weird right now because Nikki posted, and she has the NaN color. Check out Portal:KateModern to see how it looks without non-canon vlogs in the list.
~ Renegade (talk | contribs) 15:15, 9 October 2007 (CDT)

I won't deny that I prefer the older version better (hey, it was what I was used to), but it is growing on me. :D Good job, Renegade, though I too must ask we pick a different color than yellow. That, and can we still post non-video updates like we have in the past? --Pheon 15:18, 9 October 2007 (CDT)
lol...that reminds me of something I read just a few hours ago...
Baby Duck Syndrome describes the tendency for visitors to stick to the first design they learn and judge other designs by their similarity to that first design. The result is that users generally prefer systems similar to those they learned on and dislike unfamiliar systems. This results in the usability problems most re-designs have: users, get used with previous designs, feel uncomfortable with new site structure they have to find their way through.
hehe...but as long as it's growing on you :D
As for the events, that's a separate template that I didn't touch - I can think of no reason why it shouldn't work.
And about the yellow...meh. I like it, I think it works, but if I'm the only one, I guess we'll have to change it. Any suggestions? Blue, red and gray are used extensively on the portals, so they're probably not a good choice. Purple-ish is used by non-canon. It also shouldn't be similar to current character colors, and should provide enough contrast to stand out.
~ Renegade (talk | contribs) 15:34, 9 October 2007 (CDT)
Heh, we've imprinted. I don't have a suggestion for a color yet, but will think about this all day today. -Theresa 02:21, 10 October 2007 (CDT)
I like the yellow. It screams "new video." If yellow is too much, then maybe a green color? Meh, I dunno. I just like green is all... -free2liv4evr (talk | contribs) 02:56, 12 October 2007 (PST)
Okay, the yellow is growing on me. And now it will always remind me of a baby duck. :-) - Theresa 05:07, 12 October 2007 (CDT)

Brand New Images

So after much discussion over the last few months about the characters and their portal images, I decided to be a lameo and spend most of my Saturday night finding and cropping new pictures. I think they came out really good, and everyone I've asked so far has agreed, but I wanted to know what you guys thought before I made anything official :)

User:Zoey/sandbox Ta da!

I'm looking for images where they look really good.. then I'm trying to get equalish saturation levels within the pictures and I want all their heads to be about the same size and proportion within the shot. So what do you think? --Zoey 01:34, 21 October 2007 (CDT)

Well, you probably know I love those two pictures of Jonas and Daniel - and overall I think it looks great. The colors in the pictures of Sarah and Mallory are a good bit warmer than the others, but something about the way they're ordered makes it work well regardless! - Theresa 10:00, 21 October 2007 (CDT)
I really like it. It was time for a change. -- Bree is awesome 12:28, 21 October 2007 (CDT)
I vote... Yes to Zoey's design! It looks great! --FH14 13:41, 21 October 2007 (EST)
Yay, I'm so so glad you like it! I'm still messing around with Bree a bit, I want to make sure we get her the ABSOLUTE BEST IMAGE we possibly can. So if you could keep an eye on her and let me know which ones you like/don't like, that'd be great. Otherwise.. if there are no objections in a bit, I'll go ahead and make the changes :D --Zoey 13:00, 21 October 2007 (CDT)
Oh, I really like it, Zoey. Brava. ~ JBSHRYNE 01:41, 24 October 2007 (CDT)

Dates for videos

I was under the impression that videos posted on the same day should have only the newest one list the date, but Renegade keeps reverting. Am I wrong on this one? I won't change it anymore until we reach a consensus on the issue. - Shiori 15:37, 29 November 2007 (CST)

I say they all should list the date.
  •Silver•   Talk | Contribs 13:18, 23 December 2007 (CST)
Same here, they should all list the date when listed --Pheon 03:38, 2 January 2008 (CST)
Of course they should...not only is the other option optically inferior, it's also confusing - how is someone who's coming two days later going to know all vids were on the same day? Somebody might just have forgotten to add the date, just like we sometimes have no forum link.
~ Renegade (talk | contribs) 10:57, 2 January 2008 (CST)


This name is on the main page a lot.. seems a bit awkward considering she's quite..well dead. Another term perhaps?

It's the term the Creators used so far. We're open for suggestions, but "lonelyverse" kind of sounds depressive, and "danielverse" and "jonasverse" are just as personal. "Orderverse" sounds like the Order is the protagonist. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talkcontribs) .
~ Renegade (talk | contribs)

New portal image

So i went ahead and made one to show you guys, posting it here cause the main page is locked.

What do you think?



The main page will likely be redesigned right after the lg15 portal, as such it is not yet foreseeable whether your new image will be applicable.
~ Renegade (talk | contribs) 13:57, 27 January 2008 (CST)
While Renegade has a point (they may release new production pictures with Jennie & Gina, who knows?), that's a pretty awesome image, Michiev! --Pheon 16:02, 27 January 2008 (CST)

New portal title image.

I made an image so that we can make a new title image for the lonelygirl15 portal.

it would look like this:

Lonelygirl15 Portal Title 2.png

I'm a little rusty with photoshop, so the LG15 logo still has marks around it. I can also make headers for some other articles, too. (that is, if we decide to use them.) Love, Randy (Say Wha'? | Whachu Doin'?) [Feb. 03, '08 - 8:58 PM, Central Standard]
I like it, but there are two problems with it: 1) I think Ren's trying to tweak out a new portal version for Zoey, which would make the header silly. 2) The new promo images hint that the LG15 font may change again, so we should probably wait for that, as well. (Also, just out of curiosity, where'd you get the font sample from? It's extremely pixelated.) - Shiori 21:08, 3 February 2008 (CST)
Flickr. It wasn't pixelated though. I just resized it and because I'm not very good with making things transparent, I reached for the magic wand. Love, Randy (Say Wha'? | Whachu Doin'?) [Feb. 03, '08 - 9:43 PM, Central Standard]
Oh, I made a new version that's less... bad (just because it was bugging me.)


an improvement, but we won't use it anyways so this is kind of pointless... baha. Love, Randy (Say Wha'? | Whachu Doin'?) [Feb. 03, '08 - 9:54 PM, Central Standard]


Put up sideline pitcure of Gina


You know, impatience will get you nowhere. She's not exactly a main character yet. Heck, Emma can't even be written off as a main character. Patience, young padawan, patience. - Shiori 22:28, 21 February 2008 (CST)

Emma's Actress: Fired? Quit? Emma never appearing again? WE NEED NEWS!!!!!!!!!!!!!! RESPOND

Please Respond!


New Response Video Made. CLAIMS: Shadows are people on a lot of drugs that make sure they never sleep, and (these drugs) kill them when they are thirty. Who Posted It and aparently started the video with her face then montage/redub? Why, none other than Jonas's Aunt, Alex. Should it be a featured video? Respond Here:

Fan-made videos do not get featured on the Portal page - typically they get listed on the right side of the main page. The Portal page is to feature official videos and official important news, and that's about it. --Pheon 23:42, 2 March 2008 (CST)


Why is his photo darkened still? before I thought it was darkened to portray his mood at the time..when he was drinking and depressed. But why is it still darkened now? I think that should be changed!!
It's not dark? It looks the same as everyone else's--Babygurl1853 07:36, 21 April 2008 (CDT)

Was this right? RE: Crossover vids

I posted the video infor under the KM template because it was first posted on Bebo, then updated both portals with the necessary information, except changed Steve to Jonas where needed. I'm sure there's no set decision on what to do, but I felt it should be discussed somewhere. --Babygurl1853 07:35, 21 April 2008 (CDT)

Portal Images

I made a few portal images for both LG15 and KM- although they're maybe not very good. Hopefully at least they'll motivate someone else to do better. :)


Steve on LG15?

should we add his pic to the LG15 page considering he's coming to the U.S?

No more than we should have added Jonas to the KM portal because he was in the UK for a week. Nancypants 17:44, 2 May 2008 (CDT)


Since Sarah has left TAAG, possibly temporarily, mabye we should remove her from the main character list and put her with the recurring characters? Please Reply and tell me What you thnk. -Nigell

I agree actually, but I'd give it until Monday. If she doesn't show up in Monday's video (or given an indication that she will be seen again soon) I support the move --FH14 17:35, 2 May 2008 (EST)
I'd give it a little more time than that. Firstly, they've been mentioning Sarah almost CONSTANTLY lately, and secondly she's only been gone for a month. Give it another week, at the very least. Unlike when Tariq left KM, there was (and still is) no indication that she's left on a jet plane and plans to be gone for the better part of forever. - Shiori 16:44, 2 May 2008 (CDT)
I definitely think that we should wait longer, Sarah's been a main character for well over a year and she's been gone for only a month, if that. Besides, with all these threats and whatnot I foresee Carl trying to kill her to become an Elder and her fleeing back to TAAG. Nancypants 17:44, 2 May 2008 (CDT)


So wait, let me get this perfectly fine, cross-browser compatible design with one girl opposing the icons was violently reverted, but you went live with this? Redesign failure season3.png

Way to go, redesign heros. *rolleyes* Hope you're happy with your new and improved character row.

~ Renegade (talk | contribs) 19:58, 11 May 2008 (CDT)
Oh, snap! Um, probably should have made sure to check browser compatibility, but I just assumed it was okay due to the lack of objections. I really hate to do this, but I imagine we have a lot of IE users, so I will revert the redesign again until we can get this resolved. Sigh.--Jonpro 20:07, 11 May 2008 (CDT)
The problem doesn't appear in 7.0. I'm going to have to revert my browser edition just to see what the fuck happened. - Shiori 21:02, 11 May 2008 (CDT)
As far as I can tell, this is 100% fixed now. (It works for certain in Safari, Firefox, and IE 6.0. 7.0 should work, since 6.0 does.) Should be good to go, Jon. (Oh, I made the main code change in the page code, so the includes should be good as-is.) - Shiori 22:01, 11 May 2008 (CDT)
Awesome, thanks so much, Shi. I'll go ahead and re-add it. *crosses fingers*--Jonpro 22:12, 11 May 2008 (CDT)
Well, well, it's about time we got this going..looks great everyone. Nancypants 14:14, 12 May 2008 (CDT)

Why is there no picture of Emma for main characters? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talkcontribs) .

She's not a main character. If she comes back and stays for a while, she'll be put back. - Shiori 11:31, 15 May 2008 (CDT)

I suppose I understand that... but then it brings the point of Bree not being a TRUE main character anymore. Technically, she is...although, she's not at all anymore if you are going by the definition aforementioned above. Same goes for Kate on KM.

Main Character Merit

Basically, I'd like to propose a guideline for when characters get their pictures in gray on the bar if they leave (i.e. Bree, Kate). What I propose is this: Their picture be added in gray on the main page if they've been killed off and if they:

A) are the namesake of the series (i.e. Bree is lonelygirl15 and KateModern is named for Kate)
B) The character has had 100 appearances in the series, not counting recap videos (as that stands the only characters that have achieved this are LG: Bree, Daniel, Jonas, and Sarah, and KM: Charlie (though as KM is ending soon, I suppose it would remain irrelevant).

I designed this so if, heaven forbid, Daniel gets shot by a watcher or Jonas sufficates to death underneath a pile of fangirls, they will be recognized for the large role they have had on the series. Thoughts? --FH14 19 May 2008 (EST)

I don't know if I agree. Firstly, grayed boxes signify dead people. That's just the way it goes. As to the B suggestion, though, things could get kind of crazy if DB and Jonas die and Gina and Jennie are left to fight the Order alone. We'd have three permanent additions to the character list, as well as however many really are currently main characters. Mind, this is just personal preference, but if Bree or Kate weren't the namesakes of either series, I'd probably be fighting to have them be removed. I love DB, but if he dies and isn't constantly referenced, he really shouldn't be on the main page. - Shiori 18:36, 19 May 2008 (CDT)

Order of Characters

Earlier I reverted someone putting Sarah in front of Jennie because they didn't discuss or get anyone else's opinion on it, but I want to start a discussion on this. Why is Jennie before Sarah? And Gina is even before Jonas? I propose that Characters should be put in order of how long they have been there except of course Bree at the end in black and white. What does everyone else think? Nancypants 22:26, 2 June 2008 (CDT)

I really like the "normal" way of ordering the characters, but with these new icons I got, they looked really bad in that order, so I went with this, as it seemed the most aesthetically pleasing. I think for now it's the way to go, at least in my mind... --Zoey 13:28, 6 June 2008 (CDT)

Er, we need a B&W picture to go next to Bree now for Gina... ;_; - 21:23, 7 June 2008 (CDT)

Gina on the character row

What are peoples' thoughts about keeping Gina on the character row? Should she get a black and white photo like Bree? Should we wait for official confirmation of her death before removing her? Other questions? Answers? :)--Jonpro 19:17, 8 June 2008 (CDT)

Personally, I don't really think it makes sense to have a B/W picture of Gina on the front page. If we included greyed out pictures for all former characters (I mean... Gemma died... so it's not like Gina's the only dead main character) the row would be huge! It makes sense to me to leave her up for a bit while they figure out what's going on with her death, but I think long-term, the only BW picture should be Bree, who is the show's namesake and all... --Zoey 21:58, 8 June 2008 (CDT)
Keep on the character row as a B&W until such a time as the TAAG inevitably stops actively mourning her... maybe a little longer if that time is too short, who knows. Gemma wasn't really MAIN character material like Gina was, and no other main characters have died besides Bree and Kate before. - 03:04, 9 June 2008 (CDT)
I agree with Zoey. Keep her up with a color picture until her death is 100% officially confirmed. I don't really like the idea of having b/w pictures for every dead character. Bree makes sense, as she is the title character, but we don't want a lot of clutter. But we definately shouldn't jump the gun on taking her off the row. You never know what could happen. Malan70 10:40, 9 June 2008 (CDT)
Maybe keep the picture in color but replace her eyes with xs. --Milowent 10:45, 9 June 2008 (CDT)
Or just put a giant red bullseye on her forehead. LOL. Malan70 10:47, 9 June 2008 (CDT)
No More Fear confirmed it. Gina is dead. I took her off the character row, as that seems to be the consensus. Malan70 14:11, 9 June 2008 (CDT)
I agree with the fact that the latest video has confirmed it. Gina was a main character - Gemma wasn't. She was apart of TAAG - Gemma wasn't. I think that anyone that was on the character's row to begin with should be greyed out when deceased. As far as I know, Gemma was never on the character row. She was never really that important. Gina, however, became apart of the LG15 family and it's only fair to include her. In case the final decision is made to keep her greyed, here's the image - I put it up but then took it down after the message was sent to me: 0485-Gina1-cropped-icon-grey.jpg - Kaella
Just for the record, Gemma was absolutely on the character row when she was still on the show (which wasn't really a character row so much as just character boxes back then, but whatever). Also, she couldn't have been a part of TAAG, as the term didn't even exist back then. So... yeah... --Zoey 14:33, 9 June 2008 (CDT)
No need to get snippy. Just because I don't agree with you doesn't mean you have to be rude to me. Gina was apart of a big plot twist (Bree had a sister) and was a VERY important part of the story. Gemma... not so much. So... yeah... - Kaella
Sorry, I did not intend for my post to be rude and I apologize if it came off that way. --Zoey 22:58, 9 June 2008 (CDT)
I think putting former characters on the character row is a horrible idea. You start to get into the whole "who's important enough, who isn't" question and you get unsightly clutter on what is a first impression of the Wiki to many newbies. Bree needs to be on the row in some form, as she is the title character, but other, less important characters like Gina and Gemma (who WAS definitely row worthy when she was a regular; she was just as important to the story then as Gina is today) don't need to be immediately accessed. That's what the larger "Lonelygirl15 characters" page is for. Malan70 14:37, 9 June 2008 (CDT)
Yeah, I agree...but look what Gina has been reduced to. She was part of TAAG, and now she has a box that has less text than "Drew Avery" on the Lonelygirl15 characters page. That's not fair to Crystal at all.
That is beyond true! Crystal did such a good job acting and had such a well liked character - SOME recognition is deserved even if her character is deceased. I just don't like how this is turning into a "I'm high and mighty so my point is more valid" debate rather than a logical one. - Kaella
I agree that some recognition is needed (the memorial page is a great start), but I don't think it's appropriate to have the recognition on the character row. BTW, I don't see anybody acting "high and mighty". It's been a pretty healthy, calm debate so far. The level of discourse on LGPedia should be a model for other wikis. It seems everyone here treats each other with respect. Malan70 09:25, 10 June 2008 (CDT)
I propose that we add a "memorial" page, and make it featured content or something. I know it's not very professional in terms of a wiki...but we have pages on "orange" and how it is such an evil color, so I'm not too worried about professionalism. The page could feature dead characters like Gina and Virgil and have pictures and blurbs about them. --Phisho 15:53, 9 June 2008 (EST)
Something along those lines wouldn't be a bad idea at all. Malan70 15:24, 9 June 2008 (CDT)
We could call it In Loving Memory! :) --Zoey 16:05, 9 June 2008 (CDT)
That is a fabulous idea! Nancypants 18:29, 9 June 2008 (CDT)

she should be on character row as bree was kept. sure she's not the main main character, but definitely a huge part of the plot from which most of the plot wouldn't be where it is if it wasnt' for her story... just gray out her pic. simple.

Video Screencap Redirects

Any thoughts on possibly redirecting the images that appear next to the four new videos to the video's article? It just seems like it would be simpler to navigate for new people. I've always thought that EVERY image should be redirected to the video it came from, but I suppose that would be tougher to navigate for editors. Anyways, if the character images/buttons send you to the character pages, the video images should act as buttons as well. Keep it consistant, you know? It could just become something that you do when you add a new image to a video, make the image redirect to the video's article. Doesn't seem to be a huge addition to the "adding new video" ritual. Any ideas/shoot downs/suggestions? Malan70 22:46, 2 July 2008 (CDT)

I really dislike this idea. It is such a pain to have to avoid redirects when wanting to view a larger image, and oftentimes, videos are used for more than one purpose, and redirecting them could confused viewers who are viewing the image from a different context. I vote no on this one, personally. --Zoey 22:42, 4 July 2008 (CDT)
You're right. I didn't consider the confusion of clicking on that image when it's used in another article or something. Dumb idea. Malan70 18:07, 7 July 2008 (CDT)
Not "dumb," it's a totally valid idea! I just don't really think it works for right now. --Zoey 18:36, 7 July 2008 (CDT)

Character Row Post Aug 1

If you haven't already checked it out, I'd like to first point your attention to the newly updated KateModern Portal. Basically, it's been slightly revamped to overview the entire show for new viewers, instead of to cover active content like the LG15 portal currently is. Once lonelygirl15 ends on Aug 1st, we'll update its portal to use the same format. Part of that is, of course, the character row. Instead of featuring the current main characters, like we have now, the portal will need to feature the main characters throughout time. Since there are a lot of them, and we'll need to cut down, I wanted to open the discussion to who exactly we'll want to include. I know it's a bit early, but since I figure there may be a fair amount of debate on this topic, I wanted to start it early. Anyways, I've typed through my entire logic on this, so people can see where I'm coming from.

The entire list of main characters throughout time: Bree, Daniel, Gemma, Jonas, OpAphid, Tachyon, Alex, Sarah, Taylor, Spencer, Emma, Mallory, Jennie, Gina.

The number of videos each of these characters has been in as of 7/4/08 are...

  • Bree - 153
  • Daniel - 273
  • Gemma - 21
  • Jonas - 242
  • OpAphid - 33
  • Tachyon - 12
  • Alex - 15
  • Sarah - 134
  • Taylor - 47
  • Spencer - 24
  • Emma - 62
  • Mallory - 22
  • Jennie - 76
  • Gina - 61

Based on this information (BDJS each having three digits worth of videos), I personally think that the characters who should be included on the character row once the show ends are: Bree, Daniel, Jonas, and Sarah. I'd very much like to know everyones thoughts on the matter, so please comment! Thanks! --Zoey 23:25, 4 July 2008 (CDT)

EDIT: Based on the fact that six characters is the most aesthetically pleasing on the character row, I'm going to go ahead and say we add the next two as well and make it: Bree, Daniel, Jonas, Sarah, Emma, and Jennie. --Zoey 02:16, 5 July 2008 (CDT)
Yikes. I'd like to start off by saying that I love the new KM portal, and I liked the fact that Kate was back in full color.
Now, I have a question. How are you defining main characters? I, for one, would have considered Dr. Hart a more "important" character than, say, Alex. If someone asked me to list the main characters throughout the series without looking at the number of episodes they were in, I would say, Bree, Daniel, Jonas, Taylor, Sarah, Emma, Jennie, and Gina. I honestly don't think we can leave Gina off at all. She was supposed to be the focus of the third least that's what we were led to believe. As for Taylor...she was important for a good part of the first season. If one were to just watch the first season, I guarantee that Taylor would be listed as a main character. Can someone do a quick mock-up of what the page would look like with 8 pictures on the character row? (The entire portal page, not just the row, if that's not too much of a trouble.) --Phisho 22:42, 5 July 2008 (EST)
EDIT: Actually, I realized that when I looked at the KM portal, Tariq and Lauren were still in the character row, and I liked the feel of having eight characters. In my opinion, eight is the most aesthetically pleasing, especially when the portal will now be meant to show the series over the years. It makes sense for there to be a lot of main characters when we're talking about a series with multiple seasons. --Phisho 17:46, 6 July 2008 (EST)
The main issue with eight characters is that it overlaps on 1024x768, which is the resolution a lot of people use. To me, this just looks tacky. If there was a way to make this look better on smaller resolutions, I think having eight characters is a viable option.--Jonpro 17:44, 6 July 2008 (CDT)
Fair enough, I hadn't considered resolution. I'm just brainstorming here, but what about extending the image behind the character row vertically and having a 4x2 character row as opposed to a 6x1? I can't make a realistic mock-up, but textually:
Bree Daniel Jonas Sarah
Taylor Emma Jennie Gina
Eh, I dunno if that would look nice at all, actually. Just a thought. --Phisho 20:03, 6 July 2008 (EST)
I tried two rows here, but I can't figure out exactly how to extend the image to make it fit here. But even then, I think it would take up too much space vertically and you'd lose the overall look of the portal. I wonder if we could make the images smaller to make them fit? Hmm, but they might be too small after that. I'll see what I can do.--Jonpro 19:34, 6 July 2008 (CDT)
Okay, there are smaller images here. The image behind would have to be changed to work with the new character image sizes, but this gives a good idea at least. Do people think it's too small? Other suggestions?--Jonpro 19:43, 6 July 2008 (CDT)
This is what it looks like on 1024x768, for those interested.--Jonpro 19:58, 6 July 2008 (CDT)
I don't care for the smaller images at all. It looks weird height-wise.
I think it's important that we don't forget that no matter who ends up on the character row, every single character is still featured on the heavily-advertised characters page, and no matter which characters end up on the row, no one will be forgotten or not included on the 'pedia. The object here is not to cover who the main characters in a season were, but who were the main characters throughout the entire show, which is why I went with video count, as it is the most objective way for us to determine who was most active throughout time. Even though Taylor was unquestionably a main character in season one, she was not as heavily featured throughout the show as a whole as the other six characters on the row, and that's where and why I think we should draw the line. The same goes for Gina and season 3. And like I said, no matter who ends up on the row, no one will be forgotten or ignored in the grand scheme of things. --Zoey 21:08, 6 July 2008 (CDT)
Zoey 21:08, 6 July 2008 said:
I think it's important that we don't forget that no matter who ends up on the character row, every single character is still featured on the heavily-advertised characters page, and no matter which characters end up on the row, no one will be forgotten or not included on the 'pedia.
Zoey 18:46, 31 March 2008 said:
The whole point of putting the icons on the front page like that is to give people an easy way to familiarize themselves with the characters. People won't just automatically click the Characters link. That's like saying we only need to put the stills from each new video, because people will click on them knowing they can get to the video transcript pages based on the fact that the hand icon is there... and if not, they'll be able to click the "List of Videos" link on the sidebar, which takes them to the list of videos anyways, so what's the point of listing the videos on the portal page anyways? The point is ease of access, which is why the character icons are there in the first place as well.
Zoey 20:50, 31 March 2008 said:
And I completely disagree that a link to Daniel's page on Characters is the same as the link to Daniel's page on the front page.
...gotta love how these things turn out.
~ Renegade (talk | contribs) 11:45, 7 July 2008 (CDT)
Yeah, I can see your intended point ("zing!!!!?") and the fallacy of it simultaneously. As long as the Homeless Watcher goes into the character row I am good. Not everyone can fit on the character row, so the characters page link (which is prominent, yet will not be automatically clicked by all) will have to suffice for the rest. Apples aren't oranges, but the show is ending and some final organization will need to be done. Oh, and I would include Gina in the character row if possible. --Milowent 14:33, 7 July 2008 (CDT)
I'm a fan of the eight character thing myself. My thoughts on who should be up is Bree, Daniel, Jonas, Sarah, Taylor, Emma, Jennie, Gina. Even though I'm a big fan of Spencer, I feel like these eight had the biggest parts of all the plots. Much more than Alex, Sonia, or Carl. And while Dr. Hart did change the face of LG15, he was still only part of the show for a very, very brief time. Just my views! --LimePenguin 19:55, 7 July 2008
Well Bree, Daniel & Jonas definetely need to be on the reel. Sarah & Taylor should also be included for the parts they played in the latter half of series 1, even though Taylor is no longer on the show she is referenced at times. I think that including Gina & Emma is a must as well since they are both trait postivie females even though Gina's blood was of no use she was still trait positive. Finally keep Jennie she will be one of the characters to appear in the finale and in my opinon those who were there in the beginning and those who were there in the end should be there.--KindredPhantom 10:35, 8 July 2008 (CDT)
I'm not a fan of the current KateModern character row because it excludes Lauren and Tariq, but if we were to apply that principle here the only character would be Daniel. I think it would be best to go with the six character row of Bree, Daniel, Jonas, Sarah, Emma, and Jennie, though, because that would look best and those are probably the most significant characters. Bobby G 16:26, 8 July 2008 (CDT)

For the people who said eight people character rows (this includes KateModern's portal page), and I'm one of you, remember, if we want to go that route, we have to come up with a solution for it to LOOK good (on all resolutions and browsers). Any ideas? --Phisho 21:30, 8 July 2008 (EST)

Hmmm. Well, the smaller images... is there any way to center them (i.e. so they're not sticking to the top?) That might work... :' --FH14 23:11, 8 July 2008 (EST)
Resizing the background image is a possibility too. --Phisho 15:01, 9 July 2008

This is roughly what it would look like. I just modified the screenshot I took to make this, but if people think it's worth trying, I'll go ahead and try to modify the background image and we can see what it would really look like. Or, if someone else wants to give it a shot....--Jonpro 17:46, 9 July 2008 (CDT)
I think it looks beautiful, and I strongly believe that there are 8 characters worth putting onto the row in both shows. I would love to actually fix the image, but I just don't have sophisticated enough programs (that I can actually use efficiently) at my home. Only at school... --Phisho 20:40, 9 July 2008 (EST)
Okay, I just cut down the background image and resized the overlay gif, and you can see what it looks like at Portal:KateModern/New. If someone wants to do something besides cut 18 pixels off the bottom of the middle background image to make it look better, that'd be great. And the gif has to be redone because Paint destroys transparency. (Yes, I used Paint... that is all I have unfortunately.) Anyway, what does everyone think? Is it worth keeping? Are there other ideas?--Jonpro 21:33, 9 July 2008 (CDT)
Impressive for Paint. Guess I have no excuse...Anyway, I think it's the winning solution RIGHT NOW, but we might be able to come up with better. --Phisho 01:22, 10 July 2008 (EST)

For the record, the eight characters for lg15, IMO, should be Bree, Daniel, Jonas, Taylor, Sarah, Emma, Jennie, Gina. They're the eight that have appeared the most, and the longest running (also, they're the characters featured in the promotional photos for Season 3 plus Bree). The other characters that could be considered -

Gemma, Appeared 21 times (1 was a recap, 1 was a Nikki Bower video, 5 were OpAphid ARG videos), Only around for three months
OpAphid, Appeared 14 times (13 were OpAphid videos), No longer canon to lg15 and appearing in Redearth88
Tachyon, Never Appeared on Camera, No longer canon to lg15 and appearing in Redearth88
Alex, Appeared 15 times (1 was a recap), Was only around for two months, and a week in July.
Spencer, Appeared 24 times (2 were recaps), Was only around for a month and a half.
Mallory, Appeared 21 times (1 was a recap), appeared regularly for 2 months and every once in a while for another 3.
Dr. Hart, Appeared 18 times (1 was stock footage), appeared for two months, much older than the other characters.
Carl, Appeared 38 times (2 were recaps), Appeared on a recurring basis for nearly a year, And regularly in the next three months.
Nikki B., Appeared 30 times (2 were recaps, 26 were her videos), Pseudo-Canon, and only in 2 real official videos.

Just my thoughts --FH14 18 July 2008 (EST)

I agree!

So, there hasn't been much progress in over a week...Have we reached a consensus that 8 smaller pics (pretty much just like the mock-up that the great jonpro made) is the right option? --Phisho 01:50, 22 July 2008 (EST)
I'd say so. Assuming there are no objections, we'll go ahead and implement this after the finale on August 1st. Thanks everyone!--Jonpro 16:45, 23 July 2008 (CDT)

Phisho, 01:50, 22 July 2008 (EST) said:
So, there hasn't been much progress in over a week...Have we reached a consensus that 8 smaller pics (pretty much just like the mock-up that the great jonpro made) is the right option?
Jonpro, 16:45, 23 July 2008 (CDT) said:
I'd say so.
Discussion participants (8):
  • Zoey
  • Phisho
  • Jonpro
  • Milowent
  • LimePenguin
  • KindredPhantom
  • Bobby G
  • FH14
Pheon, 02:00, 22 April 2008 (CDT) said:
Back to the discussion, while there have been about ten different posters on this discussion page, that just not a good consensus. [...] And yes, Admins don't need to rubberstamp yes or no to every decision, but we do have the final judgement whether or not we beleive a proper consensus has been reached. And, IMHO, the lack of discussion here (myself included) just shows such a consensus isn't there and that even some of the more die-hard LGPedians haven't had a chance to properly assess the redesign. Honestly, would waiting a little longer for some actual discussion be so bad? We do have lives outside of this Pedia, you know.
(emphasis added)

Jonpro, 16:45, 23 July 2008 (CDT), at the bottom of the talk page said:
Assuming there are no objections, we'll go ahead and implement this after the finale on August 1st. Thanks everyone!
Renegade, 18:04, 19 April 2008, in the middle of the LG15 portal said:
Unless there are any last minute objections, we'll be going live with the redesign on Monday.
Jonpro, 16:04, 22 April 2008 (CDT) said:
I for not did not see the notice that the design was going to go live on Monday, and it's not fair to call me either "blind or illiterate" because of that.

Ah, hypocrisy. This discussion oozes it.
~ Renegade (talk | contribs) 19:03, 23 July 2008 (CDT)